Abortion, choice or murder?
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06-02-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 09:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  And vaginal Birth After C-section has nothing to do with midwifery, or home births. Nice try, dipshit. Answer the question. Which states, specially, ban home births and high risk pregnancy home births??

Uh, hello..... VBAC _IS_ defined as high risk births. So a ban on a midwife performing a VBAC _IS_, just as I said all along, a ban on midwives performing certain high risk births.

(06-02-2014 09:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'm saying that no one should be able to practice medicine without a license.

What if it's the woman's choice? What if a woman chooses an unlicensed midwife to deliver her baby? See, as I suspected all along, you are NOT pro-choice after all. You still believe that politicians should tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system, and you support a ban on certain choices, like using an unlicensed midwife. Thus, you are "pro multiple choice", just like the conservatives. I really am pro-choice. It's a woman's body. It's her decision. Always.
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06-02-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:15 AM)frankksj Wrote:  What if it's the woman's choice? What if a woman chooses an unlicensed midwife to deliver her baby?

Ok - you're mixing apples and oranges and no wonder you don't get very far.
Stick to the subject.... even YOUR subject: Choice and how to define that. AKA pregnancy and going through with it OR abortion (and when that should be - according to you)

If some moronic woman decides to call her witchy friend a fucking midwife and deliver unsafely on her kitchen table........... that's a matter for the LAW to deal with. It's not a political issue. And it has NOTHING to do with Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

what you're doing, Frank, is called goal post moving.
Every time someone answers you - you come up with a new issue.......like

yeah- but what if
yeah - but what if

and so on.

stop that.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-02-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:19 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  *some stuff*
I miss your old picture/avatar Tongue

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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06-02-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:00 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - nothing came up in google under those parameters. So I ask you, again, which states specifically ban home births?? You made the statement, now put up or shut up.

Then you don't know how to use google.

Here's one of the first links which says in Alabama "having a midwife deliver a child at home isn’t [legal]."

In < 10 seconds on google, it shows that Alabama is one such state. And if you keep scrolling down the list, you'll see there are lots of state with restrictions on how a woman can deliver the baby.

It's idiotic that you insist that I'm wrong for saying that states have laws banning home delivery with midwives of certain high risk births (like VBAC), and in the very same post you defend the laws you just insisted don't exist!!!
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06-02-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
**note** to Frank

This is no longer the Middle Ages and you should stop talking as though it is.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-02-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:15 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  And vaginal Birth After C-section has nothing to do with midwifery, or home births. Nice try, dipshit. Answer the question. Which states, specially, ban home births and high risk pregnancy home births??

Uh, hello..... VBAC _IS_ defined as high risk births. So a ban on a midwife performing a VBAC _IS_, just as I said all along, a ban on midwives performing certain high risk births.


No. VBAC is simply Vaginal Birth After C-section.

Here is a blurb from Web-Md.
"Is a VBAC trial of labor safe to try?
Having a vaginal birth after having a C-section can be a safe choice for most women. Whether it is right for you depends on several things, including why you had a C-section before and how many C-sections you've had. You and your doctor can talk about your risk for having problems during a VBAC trial of labor.

A woman who chooses VBAC is closely monitored. As with any labor, if the mother or baby shows signs of distress, an emergency cesarean section is done."

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with home births with licensed midwives. So again, stay focused. WHICH states BAN home births with specific stipulations for high risk pregnancies?


(06-02-2014 09:58 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'm saying that no one should be able to practice medicine without a license.

What if it's the woman's choice? What if a woman chooses an unlicensed midwife to deliver her baby? See, as I suspected all along, you are NOT pro-choice after all. You still believe that politicians should tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system, and you support a ban on certain choices, like using an unlicensed midwife. Thus, you are "pro multiple choice", just like the conservatives. I really am pro-choice. It's a woman's body. It's her decision. Always.
[/quote]

Stay focused here. No one, I mean no one, should practice medicine without a license. Lawyers shouldn't practice the law without a license, people shouldn't drive cars without a license..the list goes on and on.

Practicing medicine without a license is NOT even remotely the issue.

Stay on point.


Which states outlaw home births for high risk pregnancies??

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-02-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:20 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:19 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  *some stuff*
I miss your old picture/avatar Tongue



*awww* she'll be back............soon. I had a stalker here in the forum and went to complete sarcasm in order to deal with it.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-02-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
Frank:

Ok - you're mixing apples and oranges and no wonder you don't get very far.
Stick to the subject.... even YOUR subject: Choice and how to define that. AKA pregnancy and going through with it OR abortion (and when that should be - according to you)

If some moronic woman decides to call her witchy friend a fucking midwife and deliver unsafely on her kitchen table........... that's a matter for the LAW to deal with. It's not a political issue. And it has NOTHING to do with Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

what you're doing, Frank, is called goal post moving.
Every time someone answers you - you come up with a new issue.......like

yeah- but what if
yeah - but what if

and so on.

stop that.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-02-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(06-02-2014 10:19 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  stop that.

The reason it pisses you off so much is it reveals hypocrisy. You are NOT pro-choice at all. When I mention that some women choose home delivery, you respond: "If some moronic woman decides to call her witchy friend a fucking midwife and deliver unsafely on her kitchen table........... that's a matter for the LAW to deal with."

What happened to respecting the rights of the woman to make her own choices and decide for herself? See, as soon as she makes a choice you don't approve you, you call her "moronic" and "witchy" and insist the law needs to take care of her. You don't respect a woman's right to make a choice that you do not approve of. You give a woman list of approved choices she can make, and if she deviates from your list, she gets arrested. That makes you pro-multiple-choice", not "pro-choice".
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06-02-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(05-02-2014 10:43 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 10:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are being an idiot here. The line of personhood at birth, and therefore murder, is already drawn. Your nitpicking is specious. And annoying.

If you're right, and Momsurroundedbyboys had in fact already stated that she believed the point where a woman should no longer be able to terminate a healthy fetus that posed no medical risk is "at birth", then it's an honest mistake that I missed that. However, when I asked her that very obvious, basic question of where she draws the line, she should have just said "at birth" and been done with it. 2 words would have sufficed. Instead she sent paragraphs of explanations why she refused to answer the question, leading me to believe she did NOT actually already specify where she drew the line.

However, I want to point out that in most liberal societies, that's drawing the line too far. Sweden is arguably the most liberal country, and they only allow elective abortion up until 18 weeks, and no abortion at all after 22 weeks, even for health reasons. And in Denmark, elective abortion is only allowed until 12 weeks! So their position that elective abortion should be unrestricted all the way to birth is drawing the line further than most liberals.

No, "most liberals" don't believe in unrestricted abortion up until birth. Where do you get that idea?

This is one of your typical assumptions about others that makes you so fucking annoying. Drinking Beverage

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