Abortion, choice or murder?
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03-02-2014, 09:01 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
PERSONAL CHOICE, if you want to take that decision from others then hop in the GOD seat.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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03-02-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
I personally don't think much of it because I haven't been in a situation to make the decision. My body has aborted 3 pregnancies without my permission.

Now, having worked in social services, there is just not enough support for some members of the population to be an adequate parent. Heck, maybe there aren't enough services in the world for a particular person to be fit to parent.

...Yet their body is capable of hosting a fetus for 9 months (thereabouts) and producing a live baby. For people who are in this situation, far be it from me to force them to carry a pregnancy or be a parent. Parenting is hard ass work. Maybe it's my background that makes me feel this way but I'd rather a child be born (or adopted) to someone willing to make the sacrifice of parenting than some one who will fail to put the work in to foster the development of a well adjusted child and later valuable member of society.

Adoption is a great option. My husband was adopted and so are many of my cousins... but it's a whole different topic for another day.

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03-02-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
Here is what I always propose to the anti-abortion people:

Get together and figure out the numbers for how many extra kids would be brought into this world if abortion were illegal and those kids were put up for adoption. Figure out how many of those kids, on average, will be born with special needs. Figure out how many of those kids, on average, will have medical conditions like asthma, epilepsy, diabetes, etc. Then figure how much it will cost to feed, clothe, medicate, and educate all of those children, and agree that all of you are willing to pay your share of the extra tax dollars that it would cost to do this, and if you can't come to an agreement, then keep your mouth shut. I'm incredibly sick of all the self-righteous Republicans that constantly bitch about taxes that are the same ones that preach about how they care so much for the unborn, yet the minute that child is born they throw their hands up in the air and say "Baby is sick? Has a medical condition? My taxes shouldn't have to pay for that! Not my problem!" They want to talk about how they care so much and give themselves a pat on the back for being anti-abortion, but if they are asked to do their part to make sure that these children have adequate health care they are nowhere to be found.

If anti-abortion people are not willing to back their shit up, then this shouldn't even be an issue. I have a serious problem with the way children with special needs suffer from such a high rate of child neglect and abuse, and you'll never hear me bitch about paying higher taxes to increase funding for child services programs. If, as anti-abortion people claim, that it's an issue of morality, then they should be willing to do their part to make sure that these children would be properly cared for. Otherwise, they need to STFU.

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03-02-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
Pregnancy and child birth can be very dangerous also, lets not forget that. Two years ago I would have said I personally would rather carry to term and give a baby up for adoption. Not because I was pro-life but because I have seen a 10 week ultrasound and my son was a squishy little teddy bear who appeared to be waving at the camera and I don't think I could deal with abortion mentally. Now after almost dying in labor with my youngest everything has changed. Obviously, I will take whatever steps I can to prevent pregnancy (including the morning after pill), but if I ever find myself pregnant I will definitely have an abortion. I can't imagine risking my life and risking leaving my 3 children with no mother.

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03-02-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
Hmmmm....Shill? Dodgy


I am PRO-Choice and ANTI-abortion: I think it's NOT a Good Thing to get oneself into a position to need one through carelessness, and abortion is a terrible thing. And no one wants one -- women don't get them for fun.

However, I agree that is should be, and rightly IS LEGAL, including for those who come that choice through carelessness.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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03-02-2014, 10:13 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
Would you personally get violent to stop a pregnant woman having an abortion?
If not, then how do you justify sending your henchmen (police) to use violence (or threat of) to stop her?

What business is it of yours what she does?
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03-02-2014, 10:30 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(03-02-2014 09:50 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Hmmmm....Shill? Dodgy


I am PRO-Choice and ANTI-abortion: I think it's NOT a Good Thing to get oneself into a position to need one through carelessness, and abortion is a terrible thing. And no one wants one -- women don't get them for fun.

However, I agree that is should be, and rightly IS LEGAL, including for those who come that choice through carelessness.

This is probably the most insightful and least belligerent post you have ever made!

Keep up the good work!
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03-02-2014, 10:37 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
(03-02-2014 09:35 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Here is what I always propose to the anti-abortion people:

Get together and figure out the numbers for how many extra kids would be brought into this world if abortion were illegal and those kids were put up for adoption. Figure out how many of those kids, on average, will be born with special needs. Figure out how many of those kids, on average, will have medical conditions like asthma, epilepsy, diabetes, etc. Then figure how much it will cost to feed, clothe, medicate, and educate all of those children, and agree that all of you are willing to pay your share of the extra tax dollars that it would cost to do this, and if you can't come to an agreement, then keep your mouth shut. I'm incredibly sick of all the self-righteous Republicans that constantly bitch about taxes that are the same ones that preach about how they care so much for the unborn, yet the minute that child is born they throw their hands up in the air and say "Baby is sick? Has a medical condition? My taxes shouldn't have to pay for that! Not my problem!" They want to talk about how they care so much and give themselves a pat on the back for being anti-abortion, but if they are asked to do their part to make sure that these children have adequate health care they are nowhere to be found.

If anti-abortion people are not willing to back their shit up, then this shouldn't even be an issue. I have a serious problem with the way children with special needs suffer from such a high rate of child neglect and abuse, and you'll never hear me bitch about paying higher taxes to increase funding for child services programs. If, as anti-abortion people claim, that it's an issue of morality, then they should be willing to do their part to make sure that these children would be properly cared for. Otherwise, they need to STFU.

I'll take this one step further. These bastards demand young unwed girls have the baby and then when they do they shun them for being a single parent having a kid out of wedlock. Sounds just like a Christian, doesn't it?

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03-02-2014, 11:13 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
I have read a couple of post here that have changed my mind. thank you for those people who were civil. But please, I was here to get you thoughts so I could better make a decision, and a lot of these posts were hateful and mean. Please be considerate and know I am not those dumb crazy freaky republicans but a man looking for enlightenment on a topic I know little about.
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03-02-2014, 11:25 PM
RE: Abortion, choice or murder?
...since you asked for opionions.

I guess to me, the salient aspects that determine what should or shouldn't be given legal rights, is if someone cares about it, including possibly itself, and it has some liklihood of having self interest. This would include a fetus, if the mother wants it, and it would include a person in a coma. But it would not include a person who is brain dead, as they have no hope of ever again having self interest, and it would not include a fetus that has no self awareness, if the mother doesn't want it.

Also, IMHO, these rights should not be black and white. I think there should be such a thing as degrees of personhood. A 1 month fetus, that the mother wants, is not the same as a 12 year old. The penalties should probably not rise to manslaughter or murder for a 1 month fetus under any circumstance.

There might be a fuzzy area if a fetus has self awarness, but I believe current science shows consciousness does not even exist in new borns, so even law that allows abortion up to birth, probably doesn't violate my personal ethic on this.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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