Poll: Which is worse?
Scenario 1: Unconditional Forced Birth
Scenario 2: Forced Abortion
[Show Results]
 
Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-02-2014, 12:09 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 12:28 AM by Adrianime.)
Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
This thread is not (made to be) a debate on whether or not abortion is murder, or moral, or whatnot. This is a thread to pose a *new* question on the topic.

Imagine that you lived in a place where the Government took complete control over reproduction rights (and to those that do, I'm sorry). I'm going to put forth two hypothetical scenarios, please read them, and vote in the poll which one would be WORSE. And of course, feel free to discuss below.

Scenario 1: The government has mandated that abortions are never allowed under any circumstances (not even danger to the woman). Any woman found to have had an abortion, and any medical professional found to have given an abortion will be lawfully put to death.

Scenario 2: The government has mandated that the right to reproduce is only held by those qualified to do so. To be qualified you must pass very difficult requirements regarding finances, education, personal beliefs, knowledge of child development, knowledge of child rearing, marital status, etc. If you are not deemed qualified to reproduce, you are forced to get an abortion upon becoming pregnant. If you have the child without qualification, the child will be seized and kept from you for all of your life. You (and assisting medical staff) will also be jailed for 2-4 years.

So which scenario is worse? Imagine you had to choose one country to live in. Which would you NOT choose?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
Outlawing abortion is obviously wrong. I don't want to downplay denying someone's right to abort because I think that it's horrible. BUT I feel that forcing a person to abort their "child" when the truly believe that it is already a person could be close to as harmful emotionally as actually killing someone's living child. Add to that your scenario of a government trying to create the ultimate race or something along those very creepy lines, and the forced abortion scenario becomes worse by a landslide. If necesarry I could have my tubes tied, I could use all methods of birth control possible, and (inconveniently) I could deliver a baby and give it up for adoption. Turned around the other way if I don't pass this test there would be no steps I could take to save my potential baby. I can talk a lot of smack when being all "pro-choicey", but in reality I had a horrible experience of being purposely forced to miscarry by an abusive ex-husband and it crushed me. That experience still haunts me and I cannot stand the idea of that happening to anyone let alone thousands of women.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Losty's post
08-02-2014, 12:37 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 12:41 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
Scenario 1: Easily worse, because the penalty for violation is multiple deaths. What's the answer to ending the 'life' of a zygote? Why, clearly it's more killing!

Scenario 2: In a world suffering from overpopulation, when most liberal democracies have regulated vehicle and gun ownership, this isn't too big of a next step. Now it really depends on how stringent the qualification are for having kids. This could be anything from a slight inconvenience (reasonable minimum education level and income) to obscene (where only the top 5% qualify). Still even then a violation does not result in death. One would hope that in such a society as this that they also have universal healthcare and a robust social safety net that includes excellent state funded adoption agencies.

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like EvolutionKills's post
08-02-2014, 12:51 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 01:01 AM by Adrianime.)
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
EvolutionKills, would your answer change if the punishment in Scenario 1 was 5 years of prison instead of death?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
I originally agreed with EvoKill, but on a sarcastic rethink, underground abortions have been performed for centuries.
so what if 70,000 women die from not having access to safe abortion medicine, as long as the fetus survives and grows up to be a Christian right,
oh wait the fetus would die with the mother, Doh. .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2014, 01:16 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
(08-02-2014 01:00 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I originally agreed with EvoKill, but on a sarcastic rethink, underground abortions have been performed for centuries.
so what if 70,000 women die from not having access to safe abortion medicine, as long as the fetus survives and grows up to be a Christian right,
oh wait the fetus would die with the mother, Doh. .

It's this " qualified you must pass very difficult requirements regarding finances, education, personal beliefs, knowledge of child development, knowledge of child rearing, marital status, etc" that gets me. I realize my response is mostly emotional, but this is dangerous. It seems like a very slippery slope. If we are going to stop all poor, stupid people who don't have the same "personal beliefs" as the government from having children. Then what will we do when we somehow still end up with more poor, stupid, non-(insert belief system here)? Should we kill them off?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-02-2014, 01:25 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 01:31 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
They are both Evil immoral options, but only option 2 would be able to be enforced.
And with limited resources, say on an island/spaceship it would go from immoral to a necessity.

Although in a situation like BSG Abortion episode where with the population dwindling to a break point, abortion goes against the survival of the group.

So the OP's options are very much dependent on the environmental conditions.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like sporehux's post
08-02-2014, 01:44 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
(08-02-2014 12:09 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  This thread is not (made to be) a debate on whether or not abortion is murder, or moral, or whatnot. This is a thread to pose a *new* question on the topic.

Imagine that you lived in a place where the Government took complete control over reproduction rights (and to those that do, I'm sorry). I'm going to put forth two hypothetical scenarios, please read them, and vote in the poll which one would be WORSE. And of course, feel free to discuss below.

Scenario 1: The government has mandated that abortions are never allowed under any circumstances (not even danger to the woman). Any woman found to have had an abortion, and any medical professional found to have given an abortion will be lawfully put to death.

Scenario 2: The government has mandated that the right to reproduce is only held by those qualified to do so. To be qualified you must pass very difficult requirements regarding finances, education, personal beliefs, knowledge of child development, knowledge of child rearing, marital status, etc. If you are not deemed qualified to reproduce, you are forced to get an abortion upon becoming pregnant. If you have the child without qualification, the child will be seized and kept from you for all of your life. You (and assisting medical staff) will also be jailed for 2-4 years.

So which scenario is worse? Imagine you had to choose one country to live in. Which would you NOT choose?

See, the thing is, if abortions aren't legal, then condoms and other birth control things are illegal, and then the thought of not having kids is illegal, because they all are basically the same thing. Looking at this in a way that every decision you make creates a infinite number of universes, by thinking of not having a baby pushes away an infinite number of realities to become real in your reality or, basically kills a infinite number of babies. So, every second you don't conceive a baby, a infinite number of babies are killed/don't become real. Therefore, abortion is legal.

[Image: v0jpzpT.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Alex_Leonardo's post
08-02-2014, 02:08 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
(08-02-2014 01:44 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 12:09 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  This thread is not (made to be) a debate on whether or not abortion is murder, or moral, or whatnot. This is a thread to pose a *new* question on the topic.

Imagine that you lived in a place where the Government took complete control over reproduction rights (and to those that do, I'm sorry). I'm going to put forth two hypothetical scenarios, please read them, and vote in the poll which one would be WORSE. And of course, feel free to discuss below.

Scenario 1: The government has mandated that abortions are never allowed under any circumstances (not even danger to the woman). Any woman found to have had an abortion, and any medical professional found to have given an abortion will be lawfully put to death.

Scenario 2: The government has mandated that the right to reproduce is only held by those qualified to do so. To be qualified you must pass very difficult requirements regarding finances, education, personal beliefs, knowledge of child development, knowledge of child rearing, marital status, etc. If you are not deemed qualified to reproduce, you are forced to get an abortion upon becoming pregnant. If you have the child without qualification, the child will be seized and kept from you for all of your life. You (and assisting medical staff) will also be jailed for 2-4 years.

So which scenario is worse? Imagine you had to choose one country to live in. Which would you NOT choose?

See, the thing is, if abortions aren't legal, then condoms and other birth control things are illegal, and then the thought of not having kids is illegal, because they all are basically the same thing. Looking at this in a way that every decision you make creates a infinite number of universes, by thinking of not having a baby pushes away an infinite number of realities to become real in your reality or, basically kills a infinite number of babies. So, every second you don't conceive a baby, a infinite number of babies are killed/don't become real. Therefore, abortion is legal.

I don't know what you're smoking but you need to share.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Losty's post
08-02-2014, 02:09 AM
RE: Abortion. two decisions, which is worse?
(08-02-2014 01:44 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  See, the thing is, if abortions aren't legal, then condoms and other birth control things are illegal, and then the thought of not having kids is illegal, because they all are basically the same thing.
What? No.
Quote:Therefore, abortion is legal.
No

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: