About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
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24-10-2013, 06:38 PM
About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
Let me start making a point that while is obvious is often overlooked. In order to have knowledge about something, that something must exist. For instance in order to have knowledge about unicorns....unicorns must exist. You might be thinking, "Heywood you are a buffoon, unicorns do not exist yet I know they look like horse with a single horn in the middle of their head....I have knowledge about them". You don't have knowledge about unicorns because unicorns don't exist. What you have knowledge about is the concept of unicorns. Unicorns don't exist so there isn't any knowledge about them. The concept of unicorns exists so there is knowledge about that...and you might be privy to it.

What does this have to do with God? God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic. For God to have knowledge about anything, that thing must exist. For God to know about unicorns, those horse like creatures with single horns on their heads, they must exist. If they do not exist, God can't know about them, He can only know about the concept of unicorns because the concept of unicorns exists.

If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

I have heard many atheist claim that God is possible, but the Christian God is not. Well in order for God to know about a world governed by the rules of the Christian God, God has create a world and govern it as the Christian God. In order for God to know about a world governed by the Buddhist God, God must create that world and govern it as a Buddhist God.

It could be that this world is indeed governed by the Christen God even though you see no evidence for it. Why? Because in order for God to have knowledge about a world which is governed by the rules of Christianity, yet has no evidence of the veracity of Christianity, God has to create it.

If you are an atheist, who acknowledges the possibility of Gods existence, you have to also acknowledge the possibility you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity(without any evidence thereof) simply for the sake of God wanting to have knowledge about such a world. If you acknowledge that God might be possible, you have to acknowledge that it might be possible you are on the road to hell.
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24-10-2013, 06:50 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
That makes no sense.

I think you're saying that we atheists have to accept the possibility that unicorns exist. Consider

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-10-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:50 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  That makes no sense.

I think you're saying that we atheists have to accept the possibility that unicorns exist. Consider

I'm saying that if God exists and is all knowing, then God would have to create something in order to know about it. He would have to create a world not governed by God to know about a world not governed by God. He would have to create leprechauns to know about leprechauns.

If you accept the possibility of an all knowing God, you then have to accept the possibility that you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity.....because God would be required to create such a world to know about it.
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24-10-2013, 06:57 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
[Image: 1350717.1.high.jpg]

Have a lolly / candy

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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24-10-2013, 07:02 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:55 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  He would have to create leprechauns to know about leprechauns.

So now it's unicorns and leprechauns?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-10-2013, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2013 07:27 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Let me start making a point that while is obvious is often overlooked. In order to have knowledge about something, that something must exist. For instance in order to have knowledge about unicorns....unicorns must exist. You might be thinking, "Heywood you are a buffoon, unicorns do not exist yet I know they look like horse with a single horn in the middle of their head....I have knowledge about them". You don't have knowledge about unicorns because unicorns don't exist. What you have knowledge about is the concept of unicorns. Unicorns don't exist so there isn't any knowledge about them. The concept of unicorns exists so there is knowledge about that...and you might be privy to it.

What does this have to do with God? God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic. For God to have knowledge about anything, that thing must exist. For God to know about unicorns, those horse like creatures with single horns on their heads, they must exist. If they do not exist, God can't know about them, He can only know about the concept of unicorns because the concept of unicorns exists.

If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

I have heard many atheist claim that God is possible, but the Christian God is not. Well in order for God to know about a world governed by the rules of the Christian God, God has create a world and govern it as the Christian God. In order for God to know about a world governed by the Buddhist God, God must create that world and govern it as a Buddhist God.

It could be that this world is indeed governed by the Christen God even though you see no evidence for it. Why? Because in order for God to have knowledge about a world which is governed by the rules of Christianity, yet has no evidence of the veracity of Christianity, God has to create it.

If you are an atheist, who acknowledges the possibility of Gods existence, you have to also acknowledge the possibility you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity(without any evidence thereof) simply for the sake of God wanting to have knowledge about such a world. If you acknowledge that God might be possible, you have to acknowledge that it might be possible you are on the road to hell.

Hahahaha.
Good one. Some Blowjob humor.

"God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic."
If a deity is "subject" to (anything in) "reality" it exists *within* the system of necessity, and could not be it's creator. Thanks for refuting your deity. Tongue
Your "nasty" is actually quite the "fluffy nothing".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-10-2013, 07:05 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:02 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 06:55 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  He would have to create leprechauns to know about leprechauns.

So now it's unicorns and leprechauns?

More than that. If you are a theist who believes God is all knowing and therefore knows about worlds in which atheism is rewarded with eternal bliss while religion is punished with hell, it is only because God created such a world.
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24-10-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:05 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 07:02 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So now it's unicorns and leprechauns?

More than that. If you are a theist who believes God is all knowing and therefore knows about worlds in which atheism is rewarded with eternal bliss while religion is punished with hell, it is only because God created such a world.

You fucking lost me here. Try again?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-10-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Let me start making a point that while is obvious is often overlooked. In order to have knowledge about something, that something must exist. For instance in order to have knowledge about unicorns....unicorns must exist. You might be thinking, "Heywood you are a buffoon, unicorns do not exist yet I know they look like horse with a single horn in the middle of their head....I have knowledge about them". You don't have knowledge about unicorns because unicorns don't exist. What you have knowledge about is the concept of unicorns. Unicorns don't exist so there isn't any knowledge about them. The concept of unicorns exists so there is knowledge about that...and you might be privy to it.

What does this have to do with God? God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic. For God to have knowledge about anything, that thing must exist. For God to know about unicorns, those horse like creatures with single horns on their heads, they must exist. If they do not exist, God can't know about them, He can only know about the concept of unicorns because the concept of unicorns exists.

If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

I have heard many atheist claim that God is possible, but the Christian God is not. Well in order for God to know about a world governed by the rules of the Christian God, God has create a world and govern it as the Christian God. In order for God to know about a world governed by the Buddhist God, God must create that world and govern it as a Buddhist God.

It could be that this world is indeed governed by the Christen God even though you see no evidence for it. Why? Because in order for God to have knowledge about a world which is governed by the rules of Christianity, yet has no evidence of the veracity of Christianity, God has to create it.

If you are an atheist, who acknowledges the possibility of Gods existence, you have to also acknowledge the possibility you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity(without any evidence thereof) simply for the sake of God wanting to have knowledge about such a world. If you acknowledge that God might be possible, you have to acknowledge that it might be possible you are on the road to hell.
By your own reasoning, God would only have to create the concept, not the actual thing, no matter what the thing is. There would be no necessity to actually create it.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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24-10-2013, 07:14 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
After reading the entire post and comments, I am convinced this was just a clever scheme to destract me from my delicious baby steak.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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