About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
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24-10-2013, 07:35 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Let me start making a point that while is obvious is often overlooked. In order to have knowledge about something, that something must exist. For instance in order to have knowledge about unicorns....unicorns must exist. You might be thinking, "Heywood you are a buffoon, unicorns do not exist yet I know they look like horse with a single horn in the middle of their head....I have knowledge about them". You don't have knowledge about unicorns because unicorns don't exist. What you have knowledge about is the concept of unicorns. Unicorns don't exist so there isn't any knowledge about them. The concept of unicorns exists so there is knowledge about that...and you might be privy to it.

What does this have to do with God? God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic. For God to have knowledge about anything, that thing must exist. For God to know about unicorns, those horse like creatures with single horns on their heads, they must exist. If they do not exist, God can't know about them, He can only know about the concept of unicorns because the concept of unicorns exists.

If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

I have heard many atheist claim that God is possible, but the Christian God is not. Well in order for God to know about a world governed by the rules of the Christian God, God has create a world and govern it as the Christian God. In order for God to know about a world governed by the Buddhist God, God must create that world and govern it as a Buddhist God.

It could be that this world is indeed governed by the Christen God even though you see no evidence for it. Why? Because in order for God to have knowledge about a world which is governed by the rules of Christianity, yet has no evidence of the veracity of Christianity, God has to create it.

If you are an atheist, who acknowledges the possibility of Gods existence, you have to also acknowledge the possibility you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity(without any evidence thereof) simply for the sake of God wanting to have knowledge about such a world. If you acknowledge that God might be possible, you have to acknowledge that it might be possible you are on the road to hell.

Would we not, by your rules, have to acknowledge the possibility that we are living in a world governed my the rules of every religion?
The possibility that said non-existent god wanted to acquire knowledge about a world where vampires and monsters are secretly real.

I personally believe that we are living in a world where your make believe god wanted to have knowledge about single moms with sexy super powers...
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24-10-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
Okay, here we go!
Tanglers are very small creatures at least 2 inches tall. They are nearly hairless and have an insane fetish for hair. At night when you sleep they come down from your attic or any other dark place to climb onto your bed and then proceed to tie knots in your hair while you are sleeping. For those who have excessive knots in your hair you have an infestation. Unfortunately they are also a leading cause of baldness if the get overzealous.
You better HOPE they don't exist in this world!

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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24-10-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So then, the logical conclusion from this, is that Christianity is as likely as unicorns to be true.

If God is all knowing....meaning knows everything that can be known, then God must have created a world with unicorns and a world in which Christianity is true.

It also means God must have created a world in which atheism is rewarded.

This isn't an argument about God's existence. It is an argument about the nasty implications of omniscience.
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24-10-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
so? irrelevant argument is irrelevant

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24-10-2013, 07:42 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:25 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  My point is that if you can accept the possibility of God existing, then you have to accept the possibility of the Christian God existing....or any other god for that matter.

Why can't someone believe that it is possible that some sort of god exists that is not all knowing?
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24-10-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
You start off all rational and then make the assumption that god exists and for HIM to have any knowledge about anything he must create it.

Let's apply the same rationality you used in Unicorns and apply that to your god.
For US to have any knowledge about a god, that god must exist and like the unicorn, we only have knowledge about the concept of god.
We don't have knowledge of a god because god doesn't exist, just like the unicorn.

It follows so nicely when you continue using rational thought.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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24-10-2013, 07:48 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:44 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You start off all rational and then make the assumption that god exists and for HIM to have any knowledge about anything he must create it.

Let's apply the same rationality you used in Unicorns and apply that to your god.
For US to have any knowledge about a god, that god must exist and like the unicorn, we only have knowledge about the concept of god.
We don't have knowledge of a god because god doesn't exist, just like the unicorn.

It follows so nicely when you continue using rational thought.
Or maybe we do have knowledge about god which means we must have created him or else we couldn't have that knowledge. Thanks to our curiosity god is not real. Great
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24-10-2013, 07:50 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:42 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Why can't someone believe that it is possible that some sort of god exists that is not all knowing?

I said earlier in this thread that I do not think God has to be all knowing. However if we assume He is(and exists), it carries some pretty nasty implications....for both atheists and theists.
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24-10-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 07:44 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You start off all rational and then make the assumption that god exists and for HIM to have any knowledge about anything he must create it.

Let's apply the same rationality you used in Unicorns and apply that to your god.
For US to have any knowledge about a god, that god must exist and like the unicorn, we only have knowledge about the concept of god.
We don't have knowledge of a god because god doesn't exist, just like the unicorn.

It follows so nicely when you continue using rational thought.

You are correct. If God does not exist, then any knowledge we have is about the concept of God.
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24-10-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Let me start making a point that while is obvious is often overlooked. In order to have knowledge about something, that something must exist. For instance in order to have knowledge about unicorns....unicorns must exist. You might be thinking, "Heywood you are a buffoon, unicorns do not exist yet I know they look like horse with a single horn in the middle of their head....I have knowledge about them". You don't have knowledge about unicorns because unicorns don't exist. What you have knowledge about is the concept of unicorns. Unicorns don't exist so there isn't any knowledge about them. The concept of unicorns exists so there is knowledge about that...and you might be privy to it.

What does this have to do with God? God isn't excluded from this brute fact of logic. For God to have knowledge about anything, that thing must exist. For God to know about unicorns, those horse like creatures with single horns on their heads, they must exist. If they do not exist, God can't know about them, He can only know about the concept of unicorns because the concept of unicorns exists.

If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

I have heard many atheist claim that God is possible, but the Christian God is not. Well in order for God to know about a world governed by the rules of the Christian God, God has create a world and govern it as the Christian God. In order for God to know about a world governed by the Buddhist God, God must create that world and govern it as a Buddhist God.

It could be that this world is indeed governed by the Christen God even though you see no evidence for it. Why? Because in order for God to have knowledge about a world which is governed by the rules of Christianity, yet has no evidence of the veracity of Christianity, God has to create it.

If you are an atheist, who acknowledges the possibility of Gods existence, you have to also acknowledge the possibility you are living in a world governed by the rules of Christianity(without any evidence thereof) simply for the sake of God wanting to have knowledge about such a world. If you acknowledge that God might be possible, you have to acknowledge that it might be possible you are on the road to hell.

Buddhism is atheistic, so no creator deity.

Anyway.

I see your logic- but the random unicorn analogy is meaningless.

Could you tell me your own beliefs so I can better respond and discuss with you?

Thanks!
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