About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-10-2013, 11:03 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If God knows all that is knowable, then in order for Him to have knowledge about Unicorns....God must create them.

Why? This central premise appears to have no justification. Why would omniscience be constrained in this fashion?

Also, if something doesn't exist, e.g. unicorns, then there really is nothing to know about it. It is not inconsistent with omniscience to have no knowledge about things that don't exist; in fact omniscience requires that there is no knowledge of things that don't exist and this distinction distinguishes falsity from truth. Omniscience doesn't entail logical impossibility.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chippy's post
24-10-2013, 11:04 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's an illogical set of unrelated premises and false conclusions, all based entirely on pure unrelated speculations. Even IF it were "logical", (and it isn't), you haven't demonstrated that logic is the way to access reality. I can demonstrate it is not.

Well you said a whole lot of nothing. Maybe you can say something instead of just saying "Your wrong". You can start off by showing how the conclusion does not follow from the premises.

Premise 1: God exists.
Premise 2: God knows all that can possibly be known.
Premise 3: A concept is different then something physical.
Premise 4: Knowledge about a concept is not the same as knowledge about a physical manifestation of that concept.
Premise 5: If God knows something as concept and that concept could be something which is physical, God can create a physical manifestation of that concept.

Conclusion: To know all that can possibly be known, God must have created physical manifestations of all concepts which can be something physical.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:12 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:03 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Why? This central premise appears to have no justification. Why would omniscience be constrained in this fashion?

Also, if something doesn't exist, e.g. unicorns, then there really is nothing to know about it. It is not inconsistent with omniscience to have no knowledge about things that don't exist; in fact omniscience requires that there is no knowledge of things that don't exist and this distinction distinguishes falsity from truth. Omniscience doesn't entail logical impossibility.

If Unicorns could exist then God could create them and consequently know about them. Since God(presumably) knows about the concept of unicorns, A failure on His part to create them leaves a known gap in God's knowledge. Omniscience requires He create what can be conceived.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:18 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 11:03 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Why? This central premise appears to have no justification. Why would omniscience be constrained in this fashion?

Also, if something doesn't exist, e.g. unicorns, then there really is nothing to know about it. It is not inconsistent with omniscience to have no knowledge about things that don't exist; in fact omniscience requires that there is no knowledge of things that don't exist and this distinction distinguishes falsity from truth. Omniscience doesn't entail logical impossibility.

If Unicorns could exist then God could create them and consequently know about them. Since God(presumably) knows about the concept of unicorns, A failure on His part to create them leaves a known gap in God's knowledge. Omniscience requires He create what can be conceived.

Why must we be stuck on unicorns? Where is my world of sexy super powers? Surely god must know of this concept, can we require him to create sexy super powers?? Please.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 08:11 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You have a grammar error concerning apostrophe use in your subject line.

There is no apostrophe in its in this case, there is only an apostrophe in it's when it's short for it is or it was. If you're going to set yourself up as a grammar nazi you do have to know what you're talking about.
Anyway, back to the OP, sorry folks.
My head is about to explode, existence of unicorns proves existence of God and, specifically, the Christian one???????
Also, since when do atheists believe in ANY god?
AAAARRRGGGHHHH.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2013 11:42 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:25 PM)englishrose Wrote:  My head is about to explode, existence of unicorns proves existence of God and, specifically, the Christian one???????
Also, since when do atheists believe in ANY god?
AAAARRRGGGHHHH.

There is no proof of God in this discussion. It is an exploration into the "nasty" consequences of omniscience and omnipotence. The only conclusion I reached is if an atheist is willing to accept the possibility of and omniscient and omnipotent God, then they should also be willing to accept the possibility of the Christian God(or any other God for that matter). Some atheist will claim that it is possible for God to exist, but that it is impossible for the Christian God to exist. I find that position to be nonsensical if we are talking about an omniscient and omnipotent God.

To LostandInsecure: If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and if a world of sexy super powers is logically possible, then God has created that world....but you don't live in it. Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:43 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
Oh I see now.
But, if an atheist were willing to accept the possibility of any sort of god, could they truly call themselves an atheist?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes englishrose's post
24-10-2013, 11:48 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:39 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  To LostandInsecure: If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and if a world of sexy super powers is logically possible, then God has created that world....but you don't live in it. Tongue

Well damn :'(
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:43 PM)englishrose Wrote:  Oh I see now.
But, if an atheist were willing to accept the possibility of any sort of god, could they truly call themselves an atheist?

I don't think acknowledging the possibility of God's existence makes one not an atheist. An atheist who acknowledged the possibility of an omniscient/omnipotent God but completely rejects the possibility of the Christian God is still an atheist....just one who hasn't thought his/her position thru completely.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2013, 11:55 PM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(24-10-2013 11:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Omniscience requires He create what can be conceived.

No it doesn't and the contrary represents a compromise of omniscience. The omni-max God (Trinity, Yahweh, Allah) just knows. He is supposed to be immaterial so materialist considerations, e.g. making something so that he can gain full knowledge of it, do not apply. If this God needs to create whatever He is to have knowledge of then it implies that He must experience learning, if He experiences learning then He is not omniscient.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chippy's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: