About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
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25-10-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
It is ridiculous to ask if unicorns exist or not and does God know about them without asking the truly important question, "Why are the unicorns hollow?". It's great for occupying your time when bored with the question, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?".
For othe miracles of "Christian logic", watch. The following vid:


You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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25-10-2013, 12:54 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-10-2013 12:28 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  By your reasoning, anything, and I mean anything I could possibly conceive of in my mind, must exist somewhere, in some alternate universe, for this god to exist.

I agree that if the premises are true, then anything you can conceive of, provided it logically can exist in the physical sense, must have been created by God somewhere.......including your Pascal's wager imagined world where God tosses all the religious people in hell and rewards the skeptics with bliss. Hopefully your living in that one eh?

Don't believe I ever came up with that one. I actually think you were the one who came up with the whole totally reversed-atheist-hell-heaven-believer thing. Should we look back and see?

But no, I don't agree at all. I've said from the beginning of this thread that you're not making any sense. I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say, dude. I wish you would stop dicking around so that we can put this stupid shit to rest already.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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25-10-2013, 12:56 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:41 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also, we can think of things that don't yet exists as concepts; it's the how we create new ideas and concepts. Drinking Beverage

This makes no sense.

A concept is an abstract idea. The moment you have a thought about something which doesn't exist, you've created a concept.
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25-10-2013, 12:57 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Wait, can someone (who is not the OP) explain why omniscience and imagination are limited by nonexistence? I can imagine things that don't exist, without them necessarily existing; so why is this a stumbling block for a all-knowing god?

The OP--HJ--believes that without creating what is imagined (by humans) God will not have real/authentic/complete knowledge of that thing imagined. I don't think that this makes sense and may entail that humans can control God's actions by causing Him to create things.
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25-10-2013, 12:58 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The moment you have a thought about something which doesn't exist

Fuck off, you said if it's been thought about, it exists. That's the whole premise of your argument.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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25-10-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A concept is an abstract idea. The moment you have a thought about something which doesn't exist, you've created a concept.

Yes that is what EK is saying. By creating a new concept you have begun to think about something which hitherto no one else had thought about.
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25-10-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:54 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Don't believe I ever came up with that one. I actually think you were the one who came up with the whole totally reversed-atheist-hell-heaven-believer thing. Should we look back and see?

But no, I don't agree at all. I've said from the beginning of this thread that you're not making any sense. I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say, dude. I wish you would stop dicking around so that we can put this stupid shit to rest already.

I brought it up in this thread but I have heard atheists come up with that idea.

Now if I don't make any sense, you should be able to identify where I go wrong in the premises or conclusion. It doesn't do any good for you to say, 'Your wrong'. Such a statement isn't a compelling argument.

Look at Chippy as an example of someone who makes good argumentation. He will say, "You're wrong because.....". I might not agree with him, but he does give me something to consider.
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25-10-2013, 01:03 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 01:00 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-10-2013 12:54 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Don't believe I ever came up with that one. I actually think you were the one who came up with the whole totally reversed-atheist-hell-heaven-believer thing. Should we look back and see?

But no, I don't agree at all. I've said from the beginning of this thread that you're not making any sense. I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say, dude. I wish you would stop dicking around so that we can put this stupid shit to rest already.

I brought it up in this thread but I have heard atheists come up with that idea.

Now if I don't make any sense, you should be able to identify where I go wrong in the premises or conclusion. It doesn't do any good for you to say, 'Your wrong'. Such a statement isn't a compelling argument.

Look at Chippy as an example of someone who makes good argumentation. He will say, "You're wrong because.....". I might not agree with him, but he does give me something to consider.

I would gladly point out to you why you are wrong if you would be so kind as to go back a few pages and and answer my list of questions.
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25-10-2013, 01:09 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 01:00 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I brought it up in this thread but I have heard atheists come up with that idea.

Yes you have, I have spun it that way, but only as a thought experiment to show that it is just as ridiculous and plausible to completely flip your arguments around.

I fail to see your point.

Edit: Chippy does make good points, you're still not making sense.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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25-10-2013, 01:10 AM
RE: About God and Knowledge and its nasty implications
(25-10-2013 12:29 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Can someone please just tell me if unicorns now exist or not?

According to HJ they do exist in some realm that serves as God's sandbox where he creates whatever silly shit humans think of so that he can gain expertise on that.

Quote:Can they run on rainbows?

If you imagine they can then yes they can because Yahweh would have created a rainbow traversing unicorn in his cosmic sandbox to study the concept.

Quote:Can a potion made out of the ground powder of a unicorn horn extend your life by hundreds of years?

If you imagine such a potion having that effect then Yahweh must be learning about that in the His cosmic sandbox also, so yes.

Quote:...I just don't know what to believe anymore...

Your ideas cause Yahweh to realise them in His cosmic sandbox.
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