About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
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04-01-2013, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2013 09:54 PM by Adenosis.)
About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
So I asked a theist, who apparently went to school for the topic of Christianity, why god would endorse slavery (and was going to get to the other insane things that the bible says to do) but he/she said that god made a new covenant with man in the new testament, and that that stuff no longer applied. Although he/she still said genesis is true. Then I gave this link, and just says it was a different time and that things were different because Jesus died on the cross.

I asked for the verse this new covenant was in, and apparently it's scattered. This is the link he/she gave me.
http://escapetoreality.org/2012/04/19/to...nt-verses/

I gave this verse, but apparently god didn't "change", what changed was that he sacrificed his son..
Quote:Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
After all that he/she brought up a personal experience. Isn't it frustrating when someone thinks they heard god/jesus/angel tell them something? They just hinge the entire debate on that, and it's completely ridiculous. They really don't understand the brain enough to claim they know it was god/jesus/angel that spoke to them. There is such a thing as auditory hallucinations.

EDIT: he/she said that the slavery and such did not apply because jesus said he was not here to change rules. Apparently the slave stuff wasn't rules, same with stoning people for tons of silly things. The ten commandments are safe because they are laws

What do you guys say against this argument that some things don't apply
any more because of... Any reason really. What reasons have you heard
for this, and why are they bullshit? Thanks Smile
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04-01-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
I've heard that too...but then the 10 commandments would also be null.


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Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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04-01-2013, 09:49 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
But homosexuality was brought up by I think Paul...in the new Testiment so I guess it's a loophole...


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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04-01-2013, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2013 10:00 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
You know you can 'Edit' your original post instead of adding extra comments?

Edit: I made an edit to the original post, it applies to your reply.
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04-01-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Yes, I did. Something went wonky and it wouldn't let me....sorry.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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04-01-2013, 10:24 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
"So why then do Christians not observe the Mosaic Law? The answer is
that they do observe parts, but not all of it. Some parts of the Law
were meant to be temporary, while others were intended to be permanent.
This is seen in the fact that before Moses, the ancient Jews were not
bound to the ritual commands (except circumcision). If this is not the
case, then either God changes or the God of the righteous men and women
before Moses was a different god. But this is absurd. We know that the
God of Abraham was the God of Moses, and that He is our God today. The
coming of Christ made parts of the Mosaic law unnecessary." http://www.hoshuha.com/articles/moses.html

And then you get this drivel

Knowing this that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but
by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works
of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians2v16

This is why most christians love Paul, cause he essentially boils christianity down to an easy nonparticipating form of religion.

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04-01-2013, 10:31 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 06:17 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Christians, just like Paul, (Saul) of Tarsus play the convenience card. When it suits them, they quote the old law, (as Paul did with respect to women's place, and sexual ethics). When it's convenient to say they are free of the old law, they skip what they don't like, and say there is a new covenant. Of course Paul just made that up, and Jebus never said shit about starting a new religion. He could have cared less, as if he existed, he thought the end times were about to happen. He was wrong about that, as they all were, which is why they had to cook up a reason to keep the new cult going.

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04-01-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
(04-01-2013 09:41 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  So I asked a theist, who apparently went to school for the topic of Christianity, why god would endorse slavery (and was going to get to the other insane things that the bible says to do) but he/she said that god made a new covenant with man in the new testament, and that that stuff no longer applied. Although he/she still said genesis is true. Then I gave this link, and just says it was a different time and that things were different because Jesus died on the cross.

I asked for the verse this new covenant was in, and apparently it's scattered. This is the link he/she gave me.
http://escapetoreality.org/2012/04/19/to...nt-verses/

I gave this verse, but apparently god didn't "change", what changed was that he sacrificed his son..
Quote:Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
After all that he/she brought up a personal experience. Isn't it frustrating when someone thinks they heard god/jesus/angel tell them something? They just hinge the entire debate on that, and it's completely ridiculous. They really don't understand the brain enough to claim they know it was god/jesus/angel that spoke to them. There is such a thing as auditory hallucinations.

EDIT: he/she said that the slavery and such did not apply because jesus said he was not here to change rules. Apparently the slave stuff wasn't rules, same with stoning people for tons of silly things. The ten commandments are safe because they are laws

What do you guys say against this argument that some things don't apply
any more because of... Any reason really. What reasons have you heard
for this, and why are they bullshit? Thanks Smile
There's like 130 laws in the old testament. Jews are supposed to follow all of them. Some they view aren't an issue today, like stoning your children. But they are still laws. Like not eating pork or shellfish. Keeping kosher. Sex with animals too was another law.

The Christians argue that jeebus released them from the law because when he died he fulfilled the prophesy (insert eye roll). It's this bullshit, cherry picking we'll follow the 10 commandments but we'll pig out on bacon while we do it -- that just makes me crazy.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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05-01-2013, 01:06 AM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
There is so much shit in that book. It's like telling one person a crazy miracle story, having him pass it on from memory to another person, who passes it on to another person, and so on two hundred times, then every fifth person writes down what they remembered, adding their own little tweaks as they do so. THEN that collection of scripts gets put together.

Hell, the original story doesn't even have to be that crazy at all, the amount of change is likely to make it insane.

Excellent way to find the truth about something, don't you all agree?

We are sceptical about rumours when they are told in this day and age, why not for one that was spread two thousand years ago?
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05-01-2013, 07:13 AM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
(04-01-2013 10:24 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  "So why then do Christians not observe the Mosaic Law? The answer is
that they do observe parts, but not all of it. Some parts of the Law
were meant to be temporary, while others were intended to be permanent.
This is seen in the fact that before Moses, the ancient Jews were not
bound to the ritual commands (except circumcision). If this is not the
case, then either God changes or the God of the righteous men and women
before Moses was a different god. But this is absurd. We know that the
God of Abraham was the God of Moses, and that He is our God today. The
coming of Christ made parts of the Mosaic law unnecessary." http://www.hoshuha.com/articles/moses.html

And then you get this drivel

Knowing this that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but
by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works
of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians2v16

This is why most christians love Paul, cause he essentially boils christianity down to an easy nonparticipating form of religion.
I actually cornered a theist and told her, "Well, who is your master? Paul or Jesus? Pick one because they contrast each other." Never got a straight answer back.

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Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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