About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
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05-01-2013, 09:34 AM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
The most rational explanation I have heard is that Jews remain under the law and that is what Jesus was talking about, but that gentiles were never bound by the law. Therefore the old testament laws continue to apply possibly even to Christian Jews, but not to Christian gentiles.

Still, it's a stretch - and It's not clear why rules would then apply differently to different people.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-01-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Tell me again why anyone is trying to make sense of this. Consider

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05-01-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
There are 613 rules in the OT. Almost all of them are not followed by the majority of christians.
However that doesn't matter because the son of god came so there.

(blech)

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

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05-01-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
(04-01-2013 09:41 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  EDIT: he/she said that the slavery and such did not apply because jesus said he was not here to change rules. Apparently the slave stuff wasn't rules, same with stoning people for tons of silly things. The ten commandments are safe because they are laws
But did he/she specify which set of the Ten Commandments? The ones that every know and Moses smashed in a hissy fit (don't steal, kill, bear false witness, covet...), or the second set that is supposedly preserved in the Ark of the Covenant (no boiling a goat in its mother milk, the young men meeting the Big Daddy every three years...)? Consider





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05-01-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Evolutionary behavior.



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05-01-2013, 04:34 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
I hadn't discovered the Wholly Crap series on youtube before now. They're pretty good. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

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05-01-2013, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 05:12 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
(05-01-2013 07:13 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I actually cornered a theist and told her, "Well, who is your master? Paul or Jesus? Pick one because they contrast each other." Never got a straight answer back.
Can you be more specific about how they contrast each other?
If you feel up to it Smile

Great videos, thanks.

@Chas because I'd like to get good at debating with this nonsense to try and at least open some peoples minds. The amount of people that believe in this stuff is really disheartening.

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05-01-2013, 05:06 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Because Paul has alot of definite views on government, homosexuality and so forth within his Epistles that either Jesus never mentions or speaks directly against.

This is due to Protestantism just /loves/ quoting Paul as if Paul is actually Jesus. They quote him, in the South at least, more than Jesus because it justifies their positions when they pick the 'correct' quote. Jesus was speaking on good works to the poor, the rich man can not easily get into heaven, and pretty much was more radical than Paul in many degrees.

Paul, however, says we should submit to the government and slaves should obey their masters. Now while I hold that christians already bastardize the "Give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's" - this is their way to cop-out of the rebellious nature of Jesus presented in the Bible and have all the christian be nice-government-loving people because Paul (apparently God) told them to.


..Except never listen to James. NEVER. What is James even.
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05-01-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
Paul and the NT were big on misogyny. We womenfolk are supposed to shut up and do what our overlord husbands tell us (not sure what those of us who don't have a husband or father to guide us are supposed to do...) Many churches will not let women be clergy or be deacons or whatever. You know I cry myself to sleep over all this wondering how to comply, NOT! I even supervise some men at work, so I guess I'm really going to hell in a handbasket!

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05-01-2013, 09:04 PM
RE: About Matthew 5:17 (Jesus said he has not come to change law)
(05-01-2013 04:52 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(05-01-2013 07:13 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I actually cornered a theist and told her, "Well, who is your master? Paul or Jesus? Pick one because they contrast each other." Never got a straight answer back.
Can you be more specific about how they contrast each other?
If you feel up to it Smile

Great videos, thanks.

@Chas because I'd like to get good at debating with this nonsense to try and at least open some peoples minds. The amount of people that believe in this stuff is really disheartening.
I guess I can help out.

Jesus affirming the Old Testament.
Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill"
John 14:15 says, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Paul/Saul of tarsis, negating the Old Testament
Galatians 2:16 "Knowing this that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
Ephesians 2:15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law

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