About Prayer
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18-04-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 08:59 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Seems to me that prayer loses any meaning or benefit (other than the ones Dom mentioned) when you think about the fact that people pray about EVERYTHING.

When you are praying over your food, praying for god to keep you alive while you sleep, pray for the recovery from illness or injury, pray for certain weather, and just for good measure - pray for your favorite sports team to win - how can you really expect a god to keep up with all that. Millions of people multiplied by endless prayers, even an all powerful god would have trouble prioritizing the requests and keeping up.

A confusing concept for me too.

Ah, but god is anything you want him to be cause he isn't real. So, he has no trouble at all keeping up with everybody's shit.

Praying over food is another thing - it's a ritual. People love rituals - repetitive things that insert some seemingly orderly events into life.

There are all these different "needs" we have, religion has prospered for all this time because it can be easily used to fill these various needs.

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18-04-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 08:59 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Seems to me that prayer loses any meaning or benefit (other than the ones Dom mentioned) when you think about the fact that people pray about EVERYTHING.

When you are praying over your food, praying for god to keep you alive while you sleep, pray for the recovery from illness or injury, pray for certain weather, and just for good measure - pray for your favorite sports team to win - how can you really expect a god to keep up with all that. Millions of people multiplied by endless prayers, even an all powerful god would have trouble prioritizing the requests and keeping up.

A confusing concept for me too.
And all that praying sure does keep the indoctrination strong.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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18-04-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 02:20 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Prayer has always confused me.

Let's say a hospital blows up or something. And then people start praying that the victims are still alive... This throws up an interesting scenario.

By praying to god they are basically asking him to save those people, which inherently means that they believe god wouldn't do anything about it if people didn't ask him to. Cos if they did believe he would do something about it then there is no need to pray.

So the only likely scenario is god allowed the hospital to explode and would have sat back and left them die if people didn't beg him to do something about it.

There cannot be any other scenario. God obviously knew it would happen as he knows everything. So they ain't praying just to bring it to his attention.

Why can't Christians see this?

Petitions for help are either pointless or they indicate a truly disturbed god with self-esteem issues. When looking at these types of scenarios, there are three, and only three possibilities:
  • God blew up the hospital and saved everyone, because [reasons]. Prayer is redundant.
  • God blew up the hospital and let everyone die, because [reasons]. Prayer is redundant.
  • God blew up the hospital and the fate of everyone is dependent on whether or not people pray. This means that God created a problem so that people would ask him to fix it. I had a roommate like this in college. Everyone hated him.

It also brings up interesting questions regarding "God's will". How does prayer fit into that?

Now, you can say that this doesn't cover prayers for thanks or developing a relationship with God, but that's fine; the issue is that plenty of theists believe that there is a purpose to pray for help, when it obviously makes no sense.
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18-04-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 07:30 AM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  I frequently drive by a Planned Parenthood. Oftentimes there is a small crowd outside with signs that read "Pray to end abortion."
I can't help but facepalm every time. On one hand, sky daddy let it happen in the first place, so it must be inherent to the grand plan, despite their opinions. On the other hand lies the question: how many frickin' prayers are required for him to bother to intervene? They are nearly always out there, you know they're continually praying and encouraging their friends and congregation to do likewise. So they must believe that he won't do shit until he gets a minimum amount of prayers, like some dumbass FaceBook meme.
Facepalm

Because nothing says "I'm not getting into heaven" like your shitty behavior. Or Mark Twain's version: Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
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18-04-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 02:20 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Prayer has always confused me.

Let's say a hospital blows up or something. And then people start praying that the victims are still alive... This throws up an interesting scenario.

By praying to god they are basically asking him to save those people, which inherently means that they believe god wouldn't do anything about it if people didn't ask him to. Cos if they did believe he would do something about it then there is no need to pray.

So the only likely scenario is god allowed the hospital to explode and would have sat back and left them die if people didn't beg him to do something about it.

There cannot be any other scenario. God obviously knew it would happen as he knows everything. So they ain't praying just to bring it to his attention.

Why can't Christians see this?




"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious." - Sam Harris

"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." - Woody Allen
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18-04-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: About Prayer
Prayer is useless. Drinking Beverage

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18-04-2014, 08:38 PM
RE: About Prayer
Alcoholics turn to a higher power to get off the booze.
Note it is "higher", not highest.
'Higher' is not so universally demanding and egocentric as "Highest".
Prayer to a higher power may help in some instances by humbling us a little and opening us up somewhat to possibilities.
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19-04-2014, 05:26 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2014 05:42 PM by 89JeepYJ.)
RE: About Prayer
(18-04-2014 11:16 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Petitions for help are either pointless or they indicate a truly disturbed god with self-esteem issues. When looking at these types of scenarios, there are three, and only three possibilities:
  • God blew up the hospital and saved everyone, because [reasons]. Prayer is redundant.
  • God blew up the hospital and let everyone die, because [reasons]. Prayer is redundant.
  • God blew up the hospital and the fate of everyone is dependent on whether or not people pray. This means that God created a problem so that people would ask him to fix it. I had a roommate like this in college. Everyone hated him.

It also brings up interesting questions regarding "God's will". How does prayer fit into that?

Now, you can say that this doesn't cover prayers for thanks or developing a relationship with God, but that's fine; the issue is that plenty of theists believe that there is a purpose to pray for help, when it obviously makes no sense.

What about a fourth possibility where someone says,"The devil caused the hospital to blow up."?

I've heard responses to something bad happening that it was the devil who caused it. This seems like an excuse for Christians to use to explain the "evil" in the world. But they also claim the God is all-powerful and all-knowing, therefore he could've stopped the devil from causing a tragedy, but refused because he "works in mysterious ways." And if God is all-knowing then he should've known what the devil was planning in the first place. But yet again, God is so mysterious and Christians don't understand his plan so they just have to accept it.

Either way, none of this logic makes sense. I'm just gonna stick with saying,"There is no God." I should've became an atheist a long time ago honestly.

Edit: Also regarding "God's will", when someone prays and it doesn't get answered, theists might say that it is just God's will and they shouldn't question it.
I hate hearing this logic, it basically assumes that a child is suffering with cancer is "God's will".
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19-04-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: About Prayer
(19-04-2014 05:26 PM)89JeepYJ Wrote:  Edit: Also regarding "God's will", when someone prays and it doesn't get answered, theists might say that it is just God's will and they shouldn't question it.
I hate hearing this logic, it basically assumes that a child is suffering with cancer is "God's will".

Aaaaaaand they keep right on professing their undying adoration of said sadist, even to the point of thanking and praising him.

Stupid sheeple.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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19-04-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: About Prayer
(19-04-2014 05:50 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(19-04-2014 05:26 PM)89JeepYJ Wrote:  Edit: Also regarding "God's will", when someone prays and it doesn't get answered, theists might say that it is just God's will and they shouldn't question it.
I hate hearing this logic, it basically assumes that a child is suffering with cancer is "God's will".

Aaaaaaand they keep right on professing their undying adoration of said sadist, even to the point of thanking and praising him.

Stupid sheeple.

The only ones they should thank and praise is the doctors, nurses, etc. that work hard to help their loved ones recover from an illness.
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