About father

[Leela]

I thought this thread fits best here in the relationship thing, although this is not about a partnership problem or a love relationship. It is about a relationship.
The one between me and my father.

I have to tell a few sentences before I can get to the point.

I have memories back to as young as my diaper age. Most of these memories do not include my father. He was either working, or looking for work (as he never held a job), or he was out for reasons that, back then, I did not understand. But the few early childhood memories I have of him are pretty nice. Like him bringing us pastry and we had to guess in what hand behind his back he had it, or other stupid child games you play with your very small kids.
He was never a go-to person for me, of course, he was rarely there.
The older I got the more I learnt that I couldn't rely on him. When my parents finally split up (when I was 9) he simply took me and forbid my mom to visit or me to see her although we lived in the same town.
He never hit me or did anything bad to me at all. But I absolutely was on my own. I started cooking for myself when I was 9 because he wouldn't. What did I do, I cooked noodles 5 days a week, and ate them with ketchup. Birthdays where forgot, the apartment looked like trash, he would practice shooting in the apartment with me there, simply telling me to stay out of the way. Things like that. At some point I just ran away, I went to my mom and told her I am not going back.
She got full custody of me and he was allowed to visit. Well, he didn't.
A year later he sent a package for christmas, it was wrapped very nicely but adressed to my mom. She didn't want to take the package, she was telling the post officer to send it back, when I nearly started crying "I am sure that's for me" So she took it, and it was an NES, pretty fancy toy of that time.
I rarely heard of him. I remember that we got a letter once, with a newspaper cutout with me on a picture for an article.
Small things like that.
Thinking back, he probably still cared about me... kinda.

When I was a teenager, and I was old enough to understand deeper connections, my mother started telling me, piece by piece and only when I asked, why they split up and things from their marriage etc... And I understood how deeply hurt she was but I did not want to make an opinion just of that. He started visiting regulary again. I had two brothers and one of those were under his care.
But he kept being very unreliable, very stubborn and simply not a father figure at all. I saw him like twice a year for an hour. He would make stupid jokes, tell us his "wisdom" and leave after giving my mom 200 euro. (he should have paid monthly because my mom had two of the kids, that is what a judge had ruled, but he never did.)
The only positive thing he ever put in me was the seed of my atheism when I was 9 years old. And as important that is, it is not enough to be my father.
When I was 14 I stopped all contact. I did not visit, when he visited I was not at home, no calls, no letters. I was so deeply hurt and disappointed at that point. After every visit I got depressed and I said - and I still stand to it - "He wasn't a father until now, I don't need one anymore". As I say, I still stand to that very much. I do not need a father anymore.
I am 28 now, I saw him at my brother's wedding 6 years ago. Didn't really talk to him, what was there to talk and I didn't wanna start a fight or get the mood down at the party. I also had to leave early for a train that day.

Now I know that he kept asking about me. And I am very happy that my brother and mother respect my wish to not give him my contact data. They briefly tell him milestones of my life, which is fine.

Now...
I just watched an episode of boston legal, where one of the partners, who has a daughter, just gets back in touch with her, and they are both hurt and all, it all ends up in a fight. But basically the episode emphasises (spelled right?) on the fathers hurting, how he missed out on her getting a child, and how he always thought about her and so on.

I am wondering.
My father kept asking about me through all the years. Does he really care or does he think he has to? Because he has two more sons from before my mom, and he even denies their existence in front of my brother who knows they exist, even the names. Does he deny our existence, to someone else too?

Should I approach him after all these years? I know he has a facebook page, so I could simple send a message. But what would I say? I am pretty sure that he knows my profile because I am on the friendlist of his two sons and my mom who he is still talking to. He did not approach me, if that is respect or being stubborn, I do not know.

I would like to approach him, I guess. But I have no idea how. I would like to talk about things, but I am afraid I would start a fight. Because although I stand to me not needing a father anymore, I am bitter.
I don't know... Would he even wanna talk?

So maybe at the fathers here... If you were in his shoes... what do you think? I guess I need some input...

[Leela]

I want to write so much more here... ... I'll just wait for input first, I guess....

[frankiej]

He bought you a NES... he obviously cares.

[Percepticon]

(22-12-2012 05:50 PM)Leela Wrote:  I thought this thread fits best here in the relationship thing, although this is not about a partnership problem or a love relationship. It is about a relationship.
The one between me and my father.

I have to tell a few sentences before I can get to the point.

I have memories back to as young as my diaper age. Most of these memories do not include my father. He was either working, or looking for work (as he never held a job), or he was out for reasons that, back then, I did not understand. But the few early childhood memories I have of him are pretty nice. Like him bringing us pastry and we had to guess in what hand behind his back he had it, or other stupid child games you play with your very small kids.
He was never a go-to person for me, of course, he was rarely there.
The older I got the more I learnt that I couldn't rely on him. When my parents finally split up (when I was 9) he simply took me and forbid my mom to visit or me to see her although we lived in the same town.
He never hit me or did anything bad to me at all. But I absolutely was on my own. I started cooking for myself when I was 9 because he wouldn't. What did I do, I cooked noodles 5 days a week, and ate them with ketchup. Birthdays where forgot, the apartment looked like trash, he would practice shooting in the apartment with me there, simply telling me to stay out of the way. Things like that. At some point I just ran away, I went to my mom and told her I am not going back.
She got full custody of me and he was allowed to visit. Well, he didn't.
A year later he sent a package for christmas, it was wrapped very nicely but adressed to my mom. She didn't want to take the package, she was telling the post officer to send it back, when I nearly started crying "I am sure that's for me" So she took it, and it was an NES, pretty fancy toy of that time.
I rarely heard of him. I remember that we got a letter once, with a newspaper cutout with me on a picture for an article.
Small things like that.
Thinking back, he probably still cared about me... kinda.

When I was a teenager, and I was old enough to understand deeper connections, my mother started telling me, piece by piece and only when I asked, why they split up and things from their marriage etc... And I understood how deeply hurt she was but I did not want to make an opinion just of that. He started visiting regulary again. I had two brothers and one of those were under his care.
But he kept being very unreliable, very stubborn and simply not a father figure at all. I saw him like twice a year for an hour. He would make stupid jokes, tell us his "wisdom" and leave after giving my mom 200 euro. (he should have paid monthly because my mom had two of the kids, that is what a judge had ruled, but he never did.)
The only positive thing he ever put in me was the seed of my atheism when I was 9 years old. And as important that is, it is not enough to be my father.
When I was 14 I stopped all contact. I did not visit, when he visited I was not at home, no calls, no letters. I was so deeply hurt and disappointed at that point. After every visit I got depressed and I said - and I still stand to it - "He wasn't a father until now, I don't need one anymore". As I say, I still stand to that very much. I do not need a father anymore.
I am 28 now, I saw him at my brother's wedding 6 years ago. Didn't really talk to him, what was there to talk and I didn't wanna start a fight or get the mood down at the party. I also had to leave early for a train that day.

Now I know that he kept asking about me. And I am very happy that my brother and mother respect my wish to not give him my contact data. They briefly tell him milestones of my life, which is fine.

Now...
I just watched an episode of boston legal, where one of the partners, who has a daughter, just gets back in touch with her, and they are both hurt and all, it all ends up in a fight. But basically the episode emphasises (spelled right?) on the fathers hurting, how he missed out on her getting a child, and how he always thought about her and so on.

I am wondering.
My father kept asking about me through all the years. Does he really care or does he think he has to? Because he has two more sons from before my mom, and he even denies their existence in front of my brother who knows they exist, even the names. Does he deny our existence, to someone else too?

Should I approach him after all these years? I know he has a facebook page, so I could simple send a message. But what would I say? I am pretty sure that he knows my profile because I am on the friendlist of his two sons and my mom who he is still talking to. He did not approach me, if that is respect or being stubborn, I do not know.

I would like to approach him, I guess. But I have no idea how. I would like to talk about things, but I am afraid I would start a fight. Because although I stand to me not needing a father anymore, I am bitter.
I don't know... Would he even wanna talk?

So maybe at the fathers here... If you were in his shoes... what do you think? I guess I need some input...

Well, I'm not a father, but.....well, I have a unique non-relationship with my father, also.

I think before you make any decisions to reach out, it's a good idea to identify 1) Do you want to be in contact with your father? 2) If you establish contact with him, what are your short and long-term hopes for how things will go? 3) If it doesn't turn out as you envision, are you mentally & emotionally prepared to deal with that? 4) If necessary, can you walk away and let go with peace in your heart?

Whether you guys ever talk again or not, you might never be able to ascertain if he cares for you. He might never be able to give you the love and recognition we'd expect a father to provide. I realized years ago that my dad is not able to love me, and I no longer fault him for it. You know how we can't expect a 2 year-old child to wake up one day and recite Goethe? That might be your dad where love is concerned.

I would be inclined to support whatever decision you made, but I caution you to think before making a move, so that you'll be better prepared. Good luck, hon. You can PM me if you need to talk.

[Leela]

He did a lot of things that are in my "unforgivables" category. I think I am concerned that I will bring them up and at least ask what was going on in his mind when he did those things... I know myself well enough that I know can not shut up about it....
On the other hand I know that starting with something like that is not a good idea at all. But there is literally nothing to talk about after 14 years of not talking. He is a stranger to me who was somehow involved in the act of making me... How do you approach a stranger... ? Dunno

[Percepticon]

What do you hope would be accomplished by confronting him about those things? You'll want to cater your approach accordingly.

[Leela]

I want to show him that all the pain and trouble he caused to so many people is not going away, especially not by ignoring. He got away with it in his first marriage, he got away with it in his second marriage. I am not a judge but I am his "daughter", and I think he knows by now that he lost me. I want him to know exactly why he lost me. It is probably a bad idea to get back in touch after so many years and so much bitterness.

[Vera]

Hey Leela!
Sorry to hear about your problems with your dad. Unfortunately, problems between parents and children (esp. fathers and sons, but not necessarily) seem way too common. I have seen a couple in my own circle of friends and relatives. I don't think there is an easy solution or a right and wrong approach and each case is different, anyway.

What I do know is, that people don't really change. So your father probably won't change his ways and it is quite possible that he may not even see things the way you want him to. Or he may understand how things seem from your perspective, but can't really act any differently, even if he wants to.

I think what it all boils down to is what you want and what will give you inner peace. If it is never talking to him again - then don't. If you want to tell him how you feel - think about it very seriously, consider if this will hurt him (it may not) and if yes - whether you are prepared to live with the knowledge that you've hurt him (I'm not saying he does or doesn't not deserve it, just enumerating options and things to consider at this point). If you still feel like you want to get this off your chest and that he should know how he's made you feel - then go for it. Just be sure you've considered it from all angels and, above all, do not expect him to see things the way you do. He may and then again - he may not.

Also, keep in mind that expressing affection is very difficult for some people, esp. when you don't live together and can't even show it by all those small everyday gestures that a lot of us use instead of the oftentimes meaningless verbal declarations of love and affection. Same goes for expressing remorse. Talking about feelings is very difficult for some people (I know whereof I speak ), it doesn't necessarily mean those feelings are not there.

I had some other things to say about letting go and forgiving the hurt others have caused us (not always an option), but this is already quite a lengthy post, so I'd better put a cork in it.

[Dom]

I can't relate with my own family, dad was always there. And he definitely cared.

But my best friend (still my best friend after all these years) lived next door and her dad left when she was 3 and I was 4. Left her mom and two little kids, her brother was 2, no support, no visits. Some years there were birthday or xmas presents, some years there were not.

She grew up without him, got married, had a baby. When she was almost 40 he appeared out of nowhere. He had left the woman he had left her mom for and settled in the same town as her and her mom. He sent gifts to her and her mom. Little things, he was a graphic artist and send home made cards for holidays etc. Personal things.

My friend was cold to him, but she tolerated the gifts for her mom's sake. One day he showed up at her home. She almost didn't let hm in, but her husband showed up and invited him in for coffee. The kid showed up and her dad and her son hit it off.

So he got back into her life through her son. He cared for that kid, contributed to his college education, was always there fopr him with words and deeds. Eventually my friend forgave him.

It is strange how the experiences we have when we are tots outweight all later experiences. Early experiences are carved into us like no other that occur later.

People do change, regret things they have done in their lives, try to make amends.

It's easy for me to say, but I would try to look at him with adult eyes, new eyes, and not as the father you knew. Even if you still don't like him, it would be good to finally shake off childhood fears and depressions. There is definite benefit in forgiveness - and the important part here is not him, but you. Letting go of old grudges can substantially change the way you feel about life.

[Birdguy1979]

Well, some might not like my thoughts but I will share anyway. You are obviously a strong willed individual since you did not turn to drugs, weaker minds might have. If you do decide to talk to him, it should probably be in a public place. Hold nothing back. Tell him how you feel about him as a father (I mean sperm doner). If you piss him off, he will remember it. It will either make him step up and be a father or drive him away permanently. Either way I see it as a win either way. If he just walks away then he never really cared. If he is sorry about it all, then he will say so and you can decide on giving him another chance.