About special pleadings.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-10-2014, 11:01 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2014 11:07 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
About special pleadings.
A special pleading occurs when someone attempts to cite an exception to a generally accepted rule without any justification.

For instance consider the following rule. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

If you go on to claim that the universe came into existence, but had no cause....then you are making a special pleading if you do not justify why it is an exception to the rule, Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

When a theist claims that God is un-caused it is not a special pleading. Why? Because the rule applies to those things which come into existence. An eternal God is something that does not come into existence and therefore is not governed by the rule, Everything that comes into existence must have a cause
.

If you argue that the universe is something which always existed. It is not a special pleading to then go on to claim the Universe was un-caused.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-10-2014, 11:07 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
Quote:When a theist claims that God is un-caused it is not a special pleading.

Right. It is not special pleading.....it is just fucking stupid, Woodie.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Minimalist's post
02-10-2014, 11:07 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:07 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:When a theist claims that God is un-caused it is not a special pleading.

Right. It is not special pleading.....it is just fucking stupid, Woodie.

Too many atheists here cry special pleading when there is none. The point of this thread is to educate people on what a special pleading is.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-10-2014, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2014 11:21 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A special pleading occurs when someone attempts to cite an exception to a generally accepted rule without any justification.

For instance consider the following. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

Yes that is an example of a special pleading.

Thumbsup


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 13 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
02-10-2014, 11:20 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  For instance consider the following rule. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

Didn't know that was a rule. Citation?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like evenheathen's post
02-10-2014, 11:22 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  For instance consider the following rule. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

Didn't know that was a rule. Citation?

Careful, you might be accused of making a special pleading. Gasp


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
02-10-2014, 11:23 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  An eternal God is something that does not come into existence and therefore is not governed by the rule, Everything that comes into existence must have a cause
.

If you argue that the universe is something which always existed. It is not a special pleading to then go on to claim the Universe was un-caused.

Semantic games. Joy Rolleyes You can very carefully define it so that it's not special pleading, but it's still a rotten argument for a God.

As I see your argument it's:

1. Everything that comes into existence requires a cause. // can be disputed but whatever, let's see what's next

2. The universe came into existence // wtf do you mean by came into existence anyway? Sure sounds easy but e.g. if we accept big bang theory we know universe *as far back as we can see through lens of theory and observation* had a big bang event *but we don't know anything before that, if indeed it is meaningful to talk of a before, given that time as far as we know is a property of this universe*. Equally again, for everything *since* the big bang, as far as we know there is no creation going on, creation ex nihilo, it's all just energy transitions - energy getting transmuted from one form to another. So talk of beginning to exist and causes is very problematic. How can you assign something as a cause in the first place?

3. God is eternal and did not come into existence since he is eternal.

4. God is the prime mover and creator and cause of the universe.

5. Therefore, God exists.

My problem is step 4. It's fine for you to define your God as eternal, but... still no evidence for step 4.

You're welcome to continue, but my next question is this: how do you know the true God is not the flying spaghetti monster, or the green goblins whom I know for a fact are hiding under my bed?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 12 users Like morondog's post
02-10-2014, 11:28 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
1. The universe has never always been around; although, the empty absolute nothingness ( void or vacuum or whatever the case may be) has been here. Its what would exist outside the universe ( probably ) whether or not other universe may exist.

2. Just to clarify, the cause and origin of cause are two different things. The universe did indeed come from nothing. We just don't know all the details for it as a flat universe in which is the one we live in, is the only kind where that is possible. ( something about the total energy of the universe is 0 or something like that. I don't remember it, It was a very long explaination that I got when I first heard it.)

3. There is a distinct difference between something intelligent and absolute nothing. It is special pleading to make a special case for X, whatever that X may be, to be eternal and infinite outside of space and time to exist forever ago and forever always and be intelligent and then start making the case after that, in which everything else must had been created. I could go much further into detail to refine my point but its getting late for me. Maybe later.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Shadow Fox's post
02-10-2014, 11:39 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:   Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

Except that this is NOT an established rule it's a motherfucking assertion, and your way of phrasing something so as to specifically avoid special pleading. Because if we say "Everything that exists has a cause" the only way out of that with your idiotic belief in god intact...is to fucking special plead. So all you are doing in fact is presenting an assertion as fact, phrased in such a way so that you can avoid (poorly I will add) special pleading. This is a fucking word game you numbty.

You engage in special pleading all the damn time, you just dishonestly word things in an attempt to hide the fact. We know your tricks bitch, they aren't clever or convincing.

That's two arguments in two days you have shown you don't understand. First God of the Gaps and now this. Tedious kid, really fucking tedious.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like WhiskeyDebates's post
02-10-2014, 11:40 PM
RE: About special pleadings.
(02-10-2014 11:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-10-2014 11:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A special pleading occurs when someone attempts to cite an exception to a generally accepted rule without any justification.

For instance consider the following. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.

Yes that is an example of a special pleading.

Thumbsup

Mom, I would hope that as a supermod, you would have some integrity. You changed my quote and then passed it off as if I actually said that thing.

I did not say, "For instance consider the following." I said, "For instance consider the following rule."

If you are going to change peoples quote....notate somewhere that you did. For instance.

(02-10-2014 11:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm a closet theist.
- Momsurroundedbyboys didn't really say this
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: