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02-06-2016, 09:43 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 09:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Scientists are biased against the Earth being a few thousand years old?

Yes, just as Jewish scholars, teaching at Jewish Universities, are biased in regards to deeming the James passage as authentic.

Your ignorance of science is clear (as is your dishonesty in not answering the rest of the questions)

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02-06-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your example of ID and creationism (actually it's a bastardisation of my example) is laughable.

We can actually cite numbers through a census of scientists to demonstrate the views of the scientific community on evolution, as well as consensus statements from scientific organizations that reflect the views of its members:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...arwin-day/

http://ncse.com/news/2009/07/views-evolu...sts-004904

https://www.aclu.org/what-scientific-com...ent-design

Not to mention the preponderance of evidence for evolution and the dearth of evidence for ID/creationism.


Your example fails on many levels.


Like I said "there are all sorts of scientists who support ID, and creationism.", this is not disputed by your survey.

In fact here's a list of some of these scientists who support ID:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/sci...03594.html

Here's another list:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-06-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 09:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your example of ID and creationism (actually it's a bastardisation of my example) is laughable.

We can actually cite numbers through a census of scientists to demonstrate the views of the scientific community on evolution, as well as consensus statements from scientific organizations that reflect the views of its members:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...arwin-day/

http://ncse.com/news/2009/07/views-evolu...sts-004904

https://www.aclu.org/what-scientific-com...ent-design

Not to mention the preponderance of evidence for evolution and the dearth of evidence for ID/creationism.


Your example fails on many levels.


Like I said "there are all sorts of scientists who support ID, and creationism.", this is not disputed by your survey.

In fact here's a list of some of these scientists who support ID:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/sci...03594.html

Here's another list:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

1) I never claimed the rate was 0%
2) your example still fails because while you rely on anecdotes and an appeal to authority to assert the opinion of an entire group of scholars, I provided you with actual information about the views of scientists on a specific subject.


Instead you use a definition of "proof" that conflates it with opinion and brandish it as fact. Your ignorance science and your ignorance of logic are showcased nicely on this thread.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-06-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 10:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  1) I never claimed the rate was 0%

And I never claimed that the rate was a 100%, or even the majority view.


Quote:2)I provided you with actual information about the views of scientists on a specific subject.

And I pointed out that an official survey is not the only means of gauging what the predominant views of the scholarship are. Familiarity with the scholarship in particular area can suffice.

If a person wanted to familiarize themselves with the scholarship on particular area, such as the writings of Josephus, he can infer what the predominant views are in that area, based on familiarizing himself with the literature.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-06-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 09:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your example of ID and creationism (actually it's a bastardisation of my example) is laughable.

We can actually cite numbers through a census of scientists to demonstrate the views of the scientific community on evolution, as well as consensus statements from scientific organizations that reflect the views of its members:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...arwin-day/

http://ncse.com/news/2009/07/views-evolu...sts-004904

https://www.aclu.org/what-scientific-com...ent-design

Not to mention the preponderance of evidence for evolution and the dearth of evidence for ID/creationism.


Your example fails on many levels.


Like I said "there are all sorts of scientists who support ID, and creationism.", this is not disputed by your survey.

In fact here's a list of some of these scientists who support ID:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/sci...03594.html

Here's another list:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

Scientists "supporting ID" is the argumentum ad vericundiam, (argument from authority). It's not testable, and outside their area of expertise.

So ... no links. I knew you didn't do anything you claimed.

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02-06-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 10:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  1) I never claimed the rate was 0%

And I never claimed that the rate was a 100%, or even the majority view.


Quote:2)I provided you with actual information about the views of scientists on a specific subject.

And I pointed out that an official survey is not the only means of gauging what the predominant views of the scholarship are. Familiarity with the scholarship in particular area can suffice.

If a person wanted to familiarize themselves with the scholarship on particular area, such as the writings of Josephus, he can infer what the predominant views are in that area, based on familiarizing himself with the literature.

As for your attempt at the ID/creationism example, I've pointed out the folly. Demonstrate that the rate of ID/creationism belief is on par with the opinions against the Josephus texts and/or opinions on a literal Jesus.



If a person wanted to familiarize themselves with the literature, they could read the literature. But if they want to gauge the opinions of the experts in that field, they need to engage with the experts themselves. A point you still don't acknowledge. Which is why things like a survey of opinions (and consensus statements from scholarly institutions) are used to assess group opinions and views and not a person's personal opinion based on anecdote.

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02-06-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 10:15 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As for your attempt at the ID/creationism example, I've pointed out the folly. Demonstrate that the rate of ID/creationism belief is on par with the opinions against the Josephus texts and/or opinions on a literal Jesus.

Sure cite the names of scholars that believe that James passage in josephus is not authentic, and for every one you'll cite, I'll cite a scientists who supports ID or creationism.

Quote:If a person wanted to familiarize themselves with the literature, they could read the literature. But if they want to gauge the opinions of the experts in that field, they need to engage with the experts themselves.

So a person can gauge the scholarship in particular area (the literature as you put it), and make an assessments of the predominant views of said literature. Is that correct?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-06-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 10:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:15 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As for your attempt at the ID/creationism example, I've pointed out the folly. Demonstrate that the rate of ID/creationism belief is on par with the opinions against the Josephus texts and/or opinions on a literal Jesus.

Sure cite the names of scholars that believe that James passage in josephus is not authentic, and for every one you'll cite, I'll cite a scientists who supports ID or creationism.

Quote:If a person wanted to familiarize themselves with the literature, they could read the literature. But if they want to gauge the opinions of the experts in that field, they need to engage with the experts themselves.

So a person can gauge the scholarship in particular area (the literature as you put it), and make an assessments of the predominant views of said literature. Is that correct?

Your first request is nonsensical shifting of the burden of proof. Fuck off with your stupid fallacies you ignorant cunt.

On your second point, I don't know how to make this any clearer. The literature is a reflection of the published opinions of the authors at the time they published it. The published literature may not reflect a person's opinion post-publication (people change their mind if they are reasonable, a fact lost on you it seems) and the literature does not reflect the opinions of those who do not publish on that topic but are still scholars of that subject. Your ignorance of scholarly pursuits is noted.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-06-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 10:31 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Sure cite the names of scholars that believe that James passage in josephus is not authentic, and for every one you'll cite, I'll cite a scientists who supports ID or creationism.


So a person can gauge the scholarship in particular area (the literature as you put it), and make an assessments of the predominant views of said literature. Is that correct?

Your first request is nonsensical shifting of the burden of proof. Fuck off with your stupid fallacies you ignorant cunt.

On your second point, I don't know how to make this any clearer. The literature is a reflection of the published opinions of the authors at the time they published it. The published literature may not reflect a person's opinion post-publication (people change their mind if they are reasonable, a fact lost on you it seems) and the literature does not reflect the opinions of those who do not publish on that topic but are still scholars of that subject. Your ignorance of scholarly pursuits is noted.


I knew the dishonest cunt in you would come out at this point.

Answer the question:

Can a person gauge the scholarship in particular area (the literature as you put it), and make an assessments of the predominant views of said literature. Yes or No?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-06-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(02-06-2016 09:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your example of ID and creationism (actually it's a bastardisation of my example) is laughable.

We can actually cite numbers through a census of scientists to demonstrate the views of the scientific community on evolution, as well as consensus statements from scientific organizations that reflect the views of its members:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...arwin-day/

http://ncse.com/news/2009/07/views-evolu...sts-004904

https://www.aclu.org/what-scientific-com...ent-design

Not to mention the preponderance of evidence for evolution and the dearth of evidence for ID/creationism.


Your example fails on many levels.


Like I said "there are all sorts of scientists who support ID, and creationism.", this is not disputed by your survey.

In fact here's a list of some of these scientists who support ID:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/sci...03594.html

5 or 6 out of 10's of thousands of scientists? Are you even trying?

Quote:Here's another list:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_cr...scientists

That article is antithetical to your argument. Are you even trying?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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