About the Testimonium Flavium
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06-06-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(05-06-2016 01:37 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It would be one thing if Philo was Greek or some other nationality. If he were one might not expect him to have much interest in Jewish affairs ....but he wasn't. He was Jewish. He wrote about Jewish history and contemporary issues. I haven't read his entire works but from what I've read this was a man if great curiosity. It's very, very difficult indeed to think this man wouldn't write about Jesus who, according to the bible, was known "far and wide".

Philo wrote primarily about Alexandrian affairs, and he was more interested in his own philosophical musings than anything else. As earlier stated he doesn't mention any of the Jerusalem area messiah claimants of that period let alone Jesus. And wrote more about the local politics of his area than anything else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 06:06 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(05-06-2016 11:56 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(04-06-2016 12:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  [...]I never claimed, implied, or believe science as a systematic enterprises supports the notions of ID and/or creationism. Nor do I subscribe to ID or creationism. People seem to have lost why I drew a comparison between supposed historians who support the Christ Myth hypothesis, and ID/Creationist scientist.

Earlier on you wrote, "I said there are all sorts of scientists who support ID, and creationism" and "in fact here's a list of some of these scientists who support ID..."

Are you suggesting that there are all sorts of scientists who do not belong to the enterprise of science? And can you confirm that—assuming you disbelieve in the notions of ID and creationism—you accept the theory of evolution?

You seem to be hedging your bets here.

No I borrowed the term "all sorts" from the poster whom I was responding to who stated "all sorts" of historians doubt Jesus's existence.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(05-06-2016 03:54 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Let me understand. You want us to show you passages where Philo does not mention Jesus, the zombie uprising and the earthquake?

No, passages that show that Philo was in Jerusalem during the time of the crucifixion, or even the time of Jesus's ministry. As a previous poster claimed.

Which would be a surprise, judging that Philo only mentions visiting Jerusalem once.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2016 06:19 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(05-06-2016 06:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  eAnd false claims such as you saying the only thing we know about Philo is from the man himself ? Those kind ? I count two lies right there.

The only thing we know about Philo are from his own writings, and a brief mention of him in Josephus.

Quote:And how about you do an extensive explanation of the qualitative difference between him being there and have family and friends in high places and being related to the power structure.

To quote you: "Yet Philo was frequently in Jerusalem.".

A claim it seems at this point you admit was false.

Quote:He knew what was going on, intimately. He said NOTHING about Jesus.

He said nothing about any of the messiah claimants of that period in Jerusalem. So it's no more surprising that he didn't mention Jesus, anymore so than any of the other ones in that area. He doesn't mention Christianity either.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 07:56 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 06:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 01:37 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It would be one thing if Philo was Greek or some other nationality. If he were one might not expect him to have much interest in Jewish affairs ....but he wasn't. He was Jewish. He wrote about Jewish history and contemporary issues. I haven't read his entire works but from what I've read this was a man if great curiosity. It's very, very difficult indeed to think this man wouldn't write about Jesus who, according to the bible, was known "far and wide".

Philo wrote primarily about Alexandrian affairs, and he was more interested in his own philosophical musings than anything else. As earlier stated he doesn't mention any of the Jerusalem area messiah claimants of that period let alone Jesus. And wrote more about the local politics of his area than anything else.

Prove it. You actually have no clue what he wrote or wrote about.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-06-2016, 08:22 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2016 08:52 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The only thing we know about Philo are from his own writings, and a brief mention of him in Josephus.

That is patently false. A lie.
Repeating a lie, does not make it true.
http://www.torreys.org/philo-art/philo&beg.html
https://books.google.com/books?id=SPvsph...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=3VgzAQ...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=CHdYAA...lo&f=false
http://www.dacb.org/stories/egypt/philo_judaeus.html

I just don't know. "Half the time I have to ........ bla fucking bla".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-06-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The only thing we know about Philo are from his own writings, and a brief mention of him in Josephus.

That is patently false. A lie.
Repeating a lie, does not make it true.
http://www.torreys.org/philo-art/philo&beg.html
https://books.google.com/books?id=SPvsph...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=3VgzAQ...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=CHdYAA...lo&f=false
http://www.dacb.org/stories/egypt/philo_judaeus.html

I just don't know. "Half the time I have to ........ bla fucking bla".

Yes, citing people who used Philo's own writings, disapproves what I stated. lol.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2016 11:01 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 09:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That is patently false. A lie.
Repeating a lie, does not make it true.
http://www.torreys.org/philo-art/philo&beg.html
https://books.google.com/books?id=SPvsph...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=3VgzAQ...lo&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=CHdYAA...lo&f=false
http://www.dacb.org/stories/egypt/philo_judaeus.html

I just don't know. "Half the time I have to ........ bla fucking bla".

Yes, citing people who used Philo's own writings, disapproves what I stated. lol.

Jerome, and others, KNEW about Philo, you dishonest twit. You didn't/don't know ANYTHING about the extensive influence he had on early Christianity and Christian writers.
So then, are we to assume you are going to provide no proof of your claims ?

Lying for Jebus. How special.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-06-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(05-06-2016 10:18 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Jesus was nailed to a piece of wood 33 CE. Philo led an embassy from the Jews to the court of Emperor Gaius Caligula. The year was 39 CE. Philo clearly was in the area around the time of jesus's execution.

And you accuse me of not reading Philo.

Even if what you stated was true, you would be putting Philo in Jerusalem a few years after Jesus's death.

But regardless your claim that Philo was in the Jerusalem area in 39CE is also false, unless of course areas, like Dicaearchia, which is several thousand miles away, can be considered "in the area". So I'm not sure why you want to place his embassy to Gaius, near Jerusalem, which you clearly didn't derive from Philo's writing. Perhaps you read it in some online summary, from less than reliable sources, and just repeated it unknowingly.


Quote:Philo was also in the right place to give testimony of a messianic contender.

You might have a point, if Philo gave testimony of the other messianic contenders in Jerusalem at the time, which he didn't. He mentions none of the ones in that area at the time, let alone Jesus.

Quote:It would be a complete fallacy to presume that this historian would have somehow not heard of these amazing events. Someone causing such a stir that drew "throngs of people from all over" to hear him speak would surely have been noteworthy.

Except Philo is not a historian, and not some chronicler of a detailed history of Jerusalem in the first century, he was a religious philosopher, living several hundred miles away in Alexandria, who indicated that he visited Jerusalem only once in his writing. And as you pointed out not only does he not bother mentioning Jesus, but the Christian cult as a whole. Whomever his contacts where in Jerusalem, they didn't seem particularly interested in informing him of the Christian cult that arose in that area, or it's leader, and if they did, Philo clearly saw no interest in writing about it, just like he didn't bother writing about any of the other jerusalem area messiah claimant in that period, or faith healers, and their cults.

Quote:A zombie invasion and the earth going dark would get someone's attention one would think. Something like that happening would have sent shockwaves through the area. Yet Philo is silent.

I would think a zombie invasion, would have gotten the attention of the other writers of the NT, besides Matthew, but it didn't. They're silence a bit more relevant than Philo's.

Quote:Perhaps you should start reading and researching about Philo so you can make an informed assertion.

I think the person here who should reread Philo again should be you. Your claim that he was in Jerusalem, during the time of Jesus's death, that's false. So is your claim that he was in Jerusalem a short few years after his death. Another claim unsupported by the writing of Philo. If you read Philo, then you must have been quite imaginative in your reading to make these claims. I suspect that most people here are too lazy to go and read Philo to verify, so they might carelessly assume that what you stated was true.

Quote:Carry on about how Philo would have not had cause to write of jesus and was never in the area around the time of his magic and subsequent death. Here, I will give you a shovel so you can continue digging the hole for yourself...

He wasn't in the area at the time. Here's his [url= http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book40.html
]Embassy to Gaius[/url]. I even went ahead and reread the whole thing, just to insure that I didn't miss anything. But no, still no support for you claim. If you believe otherwise, please show the relevant statements from Philo which reveal that he traveled to Jerusalem during that period.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book40.html

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-06-2016, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2016 11:16 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 09:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 09:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, citing people who used Philo's own writings, disapproves what I stated. lol.

Jerome, and others, KNEW about Philo, you dishonest twit. You didn't/don't know ANYTHING about the extensive influence he had on early Christianity and Christian writers.
So then, are we to assume you are going to provide no proof of your claims ?

Lying for Jebus. How special.

Uhh, Jerome lived about 300 years after Philo, so how did he know Philo again, besides from Philo's own writings, and what Josephus stated?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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