About the Testimonium Flavium
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06-06-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
The "recent" questioning of the Christ narrative incorporates several factors, I'd say. One is the recent discovery of much of the literature the Orthodox Christians deliberately tried to wipe out, such as the Gnostic Gospels found at Nag Hammadi, and a vastly improved understanding of Ancient Near East cultures and languages, compared to previous generations...

...and, perhaps most importantly of all, the ability of scholars to ask such questions without facing serious ramifications to their personal and professional lives is fairly recent, due to the dominance of the church's secular power in Europe for so many centuries. Heck, you could be killed just for translating the Bible into a language non-Clergy could understand!

Only after the Enlightenment did we see the rise of authors like Voltaire and Hobbes, who could question things that had been taken for granted (and kept that way by force). And only very recently have people been able to posit that Jesus might not have even existed. We're still learning about this field, but I'd say few of the newer discoveries have been good for the tradition, despite the fact that the majority of theologians continue to resist any challenges to their presuppositions.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-06-2016, 05:04 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 09:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The "recent" questioning of the Christ narrative incorporates several factors, I'd say. One is the recent discovery of much of the literature the Orthodox Christians deliberately tried to wipe out, such as the Gnostic Gospels found at Nag Hammadi, and a vastly improved understanding of Ancient Near East cultures and languages, compared to previous generations...

...and, perhaps most importantly of all, the ability of scholars to ask such questions without facing serious ramifications to their personal and professional lives is fairly recent, due to the dominance of the church's secular power in Europe for so many centuries. Heck, you could be killed just for translating the Bible into a language non-Clergy could understand!

Only after the Enlightenment did we see the rise of authors like Voltaire and Hobbes, who could question things that had been taken for granted (and kept that way by force). And only very recently have people been able to posit that Jesus might not have even existed. We're still learning about this field, but I'd say few of the newer discoveries have been good for the tradition, despite the fact that the majority of theologians continue to resist any challenges to their presuppositions.

Also Dead Sea scrolls, and stuff like this :
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily...n-display/

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07-06-2016, 05:46 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 06:07 AM by Tomasia.)
About the Testimonium Flavium
(06-06-2016 09:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The "recent" questioning of the Christ narrative incorporates several factors, I'd say. One is the recent discovery of much of the literature the Orthodox Christians deliberately tried to wipe out, such as the Gnostic Gospels found at Nag Hammadi, and a vastly improved understanding of Ancient Near East cultures and languages, compared to previous generations...

...and, perhaps most importantly of all, the ability of scholars to ask such questions without facing serious ramifications to their personal and professional lives is fairly recent, due to the dominance of the church's secular power in Europe for so many centuries.

The people who primarily question the existence to Christ aren't scholars, you can pile up all the books written about Jesus not existing, and you'll find that they're dominantly written by non-scholars, like Earl Doherty, Archaya X, David Fitzgerald, etc...

Even in arguments here primarily only two names get brought up repeatedly, Carrier, and Price.

It's also interesting that atheists seem to lack a degree of self-awareness, to mention the high degree of garbage that's been put out their by proponents of mythicism, such as the savior deity comparisons. The stuff that gets connected with the Zeitigiest films. The variety of verifiable lies even mentioned such as Philo visiting Jerusalem frequently, being in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's death.

There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support the Christ myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it. What do you think motivates them? Why are some people so adamant to peddle the idea that Jesus did not exist, even if that means lying for the sake of it?

And the problem with our supposed skeptics, is that they often accept this nonsense at face value, very few of them ever seem to check the sources, to see if the claims about them add up. They're often sold by the confidence of their local charlatan.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 05:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 09:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The "recent" questioning of the Christ narrative incorporates several factors, I'd say. One is the recent discovery of much of the literature the Orthodox Christians deliberately tried to wipe out, such as the Gnostic Gospels found at Nag Hammadi, and a vastly improved understanding of Ancient Near East cultures and languages, compared to previous generations...

...and, perhaps most importantly of all, the ability of scholars to ask such questions without facing serious ramifications to their personal and professional lives is fairly recent, due to the dominance of the church's secular power in Europe for so many centuries.

The people who primarily question the existence to Christ aren't scholars, you can pile up all the books written about Jesus not existing, and you'll find that they're dominantly written by non-scholars, like Earl Doherty, Archaya X, David Fitzgerald, etc...

Even in arguments here primarily only two names get brought up repeatedly, Carrier, and Price.

It's also interesting that atheists seem to lack a degree of self-awareness, to mention the high degree of garbage that's been put out their by proponents of mythicism, such as the savior deity comparisons. The stuff that gets connected with the Zeitigiest films. The variety of verifiable lies even mentioned such as Philo visiting Jerusalem frequently, being in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's death.

There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support the Christ myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it. What do you think motivates them? Why are some people so adamant to peddle the idea that Jesus did not exist, even if that means lying for the sake of it?

And the problem with our supposed skeptics, is that they often accept this nonsense at face value, very few of them ever seem to check the sources, to see if the claims about them add up. They're often sold by the confidence of their local charlatan.

The irony and hypocrisy continues.

In fact, this statement alone is fucking hilariously ironic: "There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support the Christ myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it." Yes, there is a cottage industry around the myth of Christ, and they sell bibles by the dozen to go along with the Jesus statues and Jesus paintings. They make movies with such great titles as "God's not dead" and who could forget "God's not dead 2." There are whole sections in bookstores devoted to "Christian fiction" (also ironic) in this industry and whole bookstores that peddle all of this junk.

You intended for that statement to say: "There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support Christ as a myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it." Except you're simply full of shit and inadvertently said something true about Christ as a myth and the charlatans who make money hand over fist peddling it.

What's the "cottage industry" of people discussing Jesus as a myth? A couple of books have been written? That's it? That's your demonstration of "individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it?" And by "lie" you mean "discuss Jesus in a way that you don't like because it doesn't fit your religious views."

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07-06-2016, 07:07 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 07:21 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 06:49 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You intended for that statement to say: "There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support Christ as a myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it." Except you're simply full of shit and inadvertently said something true about Christ as a myth and the charlatans who make money hand over fist peddling it.

No dummy, I meant to say the Christ myth, in reference to the Christ myth theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

Quote:And by "lie" you mean "discuss Jesus in a way that you don't like because it doesn't fit your religious views."

No, I mean blatant, and unequivocal lies, that even some mythicist will acknowledge.

Like the ones here: http://www.liberalamerica.org/2015/03/17...te-jesus/, that used to spread quite frequently across places like this.

Or the one of a part of three Zeitgeist series, dealing with a Global Banking Conspiracy, 9/11 being an inside Job, and Jesus not existing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM78_ZEE-Os

You seem so lacking in self-awareness, or just plain ignorant, that you can't tell the difference between blatant lies, and what would amount to difference in opinion, or contrary discussions.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 06:49 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You intended for that statement to say: "There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support Christ as a myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it." Except you're simply full of shit and inadvertently said something true about Christ as a myth and the charlatans who make money hand over fist peddling it.

No dummy, I meant to say the Christ myth, in reference to the Christ myth theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

Quote:And by "lie" you mean "discuss Jesus in a way that you don't like because it doesn't fit your religious views."

No, I mean blatant, and unequivocal lies, that even some mythicist will acknowledge.

Like the ones here: http://www.liberalamerica.org/2015/03/17...te-jesus/, that used to spread quite frequently across places like this..

You seem so lacking in self-awareness, or just plane ignorant, that you can't tell the difference between blatant lies, and what would amount to difference in opinion, or contrary discussions.

Just keep doubling down on that hypocrisy. It suits you. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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07-06-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Just keep doubling down on that hypocrisy. It suits you. Drinking Beverage

Gotya buddy.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 07:13 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You seem so lacking in self-awareness, or just plane ignorant

plain ignorant Drinking Beverage

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07-06-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 07:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Just keep doubling down on that hypocrisy. It suits you. Drinking Beverage

Gotya buddy.

That Christian hypocrisy Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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07-06-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:13 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You seem so lacking in self-awareness, or just plane ignorant

plain ignorant Drinking Beverage

The irony continues Laugh out load

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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