About the Testimonium Flavium
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07-06-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 07:15 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 07:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Gotya buddy.

That Christian hypocrisy Drinking Beverage

Ah huh.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 05:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's also interesting that atheists seem to lack a degree of self-awareness, to mention the high degree of garbage that's been put out their by proponents of mythicism, such as the savior deity comparisons. The stuff that gets connected with the Zeitigiest films. The variety of verifiable lies even mentioned such as Philo visiting Jerusalem frequently, being in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's death.

There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support the Christ myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it. What do you think motivates them? Why are some people so adamant to peddle the idea that Jesus did not exist, even if that means lying for the sake of it?

And the problem with our supposed skeptics, is that they often accept this nonsense at face value, very few of them ever seem to check the sources, to see if the claims about them add up. They're often sold by the confidence of their local charlatan.

I haven't seen anyone claim (except you, claiming it for us) that Philo was in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's death. I have seen several people state (correctly) that he went there within a few years after the alleged execution, and wonder aloud why Philo would be unaware of the events described-- the darkness, the earthquakes, the zombies, and the tearing of the veil-- which would have still been talked about as a major event, had they actually happened.

I have seen one person claim Philo visited Jerusalem frequently, but most of us have stated that he was in frequent contact with Jerusalem, due to his family connections there. Yet you continue to act as if most of us have a position that you can easily destroy. It strikes me as deeply dishonest.

As to the people willing to lie for the sake of the mythicist position (I have not encountered them, but I'll take your word that they exist-- it would hardly surprise me, given human nature), I'd say they pale in comparison to the number of people willing to lie in favor of the traditional Christ-story version handed down to us by the 3rd-4th century church leaders.

Given the known willingness of church fathers to manipulate the evidence and story to suit their own socio-political agendas (to which a at least one of them openly confessed, in extant letters to their colleagues), and the Orthodox church's willingness to suppress anything that could call their theology into question, I'd say it's worth questioning (remaining skeptical of) the Christ-narrative even if we had no evidence at all that it had been shaped by their agendas from some actual truth that Jesus the Rabbi might have existed.

As you know, I hope, by now, I am not a Mythicist, so I find your assertion about some willingness to lie or to remain credulous more than a little bit insulting. I think many of the points made by Price and Carrier are worth considering, and I think the historical Jesus authors also make good points. But your unwillingness to consider the probability that "brother" could have uses other than the one you're leaping to, and that there were other "anointed ones" who were "teachers of righteousness" that were part of religious-leader families and included the common names Jesus and James shows me that you make at least as many leaps-of-logic as the people you are accusing here, but are too blind to see it because it suits your pre-judged narrative.

Try to Project a little less, amigo.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-06-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 05:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The people who primarily question the existence to Christ aren't scholars, you can pile up all the books written about Jesus not existing, and you'll find that they're dominantly written by non-scholars, like Earl Doherty, Archaya X, David Fitzgerald, etc...

Even in arguments here primarily only two names get brought up repeatedly, Carrier, and Price.

It's also interesting that atheists seem to lack a degree of self-awareness, to mention the high degree of garbage that's been put out their by proponents of mythicism, such as the savior deity comparisons. The stuff that gets connected with the Zeitigiest films. The variety of verifiable lies even mentioned such as Philo visiting Jerusalem frequently, being in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's death.

There's been an entire cottage industry devoted to peddling nonsense to support the Christ myth, a steady stream of individuals willing to blatantly lie for this sake of it. What do you think motivates them? Why are some people so adamant to peddle the idea that Jesus did not exist, even if that means lying for the sake of it?

And the problem with our supposed skeptics, is that they often accept this nonsense at face value, very few of them ever seem to check the sources, to see if the claims about them add up. They're often sold by the confidence of their local charlatan.

Prove it. All just more bullshit generalizations by the FRAUD who says he's here to learn. How is it, the guy who can't ever even ONCE take on a specific argument can make all these generalizations ?

There's also MORE than a "cottage industry" devoted to the bullshit of Jesus. Religionists are not really positioned to talk about THAT, now are they.

You, Tommy Boy, have disqualified yourself from ANY discussion of this topic. You said you cannot image your positions not being true. You are incompetent and presupositionalist. Go do your fucking preaching somewhere else.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2016, 10:30 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 11:36 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 09:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I haven't seen anyone claim (except you, claiming it for us) that Philo was in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's death. I have seen several people state (correctly) that he went there within a few years after the alleged execution, and wonder aloud why Philo would be unaware of the events described-- the darkness, the earthquakes, the zombies, and the tearing of the veil-- which would have still been talked about as a major event, had they actually happened.

To quote GoodwithoutGod: “ He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ’s miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion happened with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness and resurrection of the dead took place – when Christ himself rose from the dead and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.”

Perhaps you didn’t see this statement of his earlier. But now you have no excuse.

The second claim that he was there some few years after Christ’s death, is also false. A claim which you seem to also support, which you likely didn’t get from reading Philo’s Embassy to Gauis, if you did please quote the portion where Philo mentions himself traveling in or around Jerusalem around that aforementioned period. Either that or retract the claim. My assumption is you read someone else claiming it, and without verifying it, took it as true.

Quote:As to the people willing to lie for the sake of the mythicist position (I have not encountered them, but I'll take your word that they exist-- it would hardly surprise me, given human nature),

I guess you been living under a rock for the past several years, never heard the Christ/Pagan God comparisons, which I linked to earlier, are unfamiliar with the claims made in Religulous, the God who Wasn’t there, etc… As i recall you were incarcerated for a bit, so there is possibly you’ve never heard such claims before.

But either way, the claim that Philo was in Jerusalem during the time of Christ’s life and death, is lie. The claim that he was visiting Jerusalem frequently, is a lie, so is the claim that he was in Jerusalem shortly after his death I’m not questioning the honesty of those who might peddle these claims, unknowingly aware of their falsehood, But whoever initially sold it to them, was intentionally selling falsehoods to audience they knew was unlikely to challenge them.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 10:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I’m not questioning the honesty of those who might peddle these claims, unknowingly aware of their falsehood, But whoever initially sold it to them, was intentionally selling falsehoods to audience they knew was unlikely to challenge them.

Blush It's so nice when religious guys say things like this. Makes me all warm and tingly inside Big Grin

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-06-2016, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 11:01 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 10:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But either way, the claim that Philo was in Jerusalem during the time of Christ’s life and death, is lie. The claim that he was visiting Jerusalem frequently, is a lie, so is the claim that he was in Jerusalem shortly after his death I’m not questioning the honesty of those who might peddle these claims, unknowingly aware of their falsehood, But whoever initially sold it to them, was intentionally selling falsehoods to audience they knew was unlikely to challenge them.

Bla bla bla. Self-righteous bullshit.
How could you possibly know that ? You said the ONLY things we know about him are from his own writings and Josephus. You think he wrote about every single trip he made ? He had family and many friends there. We may not be able to say he was there on any given date, but your assumptions are not justified. He also wrote many letters and would have ben informed about happenings there. He failed to mention the important things (if any really happened) about this Jesus. Like the temple curtain, 500 zombies, etc etc. He would have heard about such things IF the Sanhedrin was called into session on Passover weekend. His silence is remarkable. Carrier and Price are WORLDS more competent than you will ever be.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
Quote:But whoever initially sold it to them, was intentionally selling falsehoods to audience they knew was unlikely to challenge them.

Nice try at attempting to invalidate their arguments. Since you can't even take on two of them, and demonstrate why they are invalid, I guess you are not exactly in a position to say that, now are you. No one 'sold" anyone anything. Ehrman was expected to, and DID reply to many of the arguments. You're just so interested in preaching and presuppositionist nonsense, you can't see straight.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 10:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 10:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I’m not questioning the honesty of those who might peddle these claims, unknowingly aware of their falsehood, But whoever initially sold it to them, was intentionally selling falsehoods to audience they knew was unlikely to challenge them.

Blush It's so nice when religious guys say things like this. Makes me all warm and tingly inside Big Grin

A lack of insight and a heavy dose of brainwashing appear to lead to this sort of hypocrisy. Tongue

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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07-06-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 10:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Bla bla bla. Self-righteous bullshit.
How could you possibly know that ? You said the ONLY things we know about him are from his own writings and Josephus. You think he wrote about every single trip he made ?

You should perhaps ask that to GoodwithoutGod, and Rocketsurgeon who claim that he was in Jerusalem around the time of Jesus's death. If his writing nor Josephus support this, then it goes without saying that someone here isn't telling the truth.

Quote:He had family and many friends there. We may not be able to say he was there on any given date, but your assumptions are not justified. He also wrote many letters and would have ben informed about happenings there.

I provided a list of all Philo's known works, about 45 subjects in total. How many of those were writings dealing with historical events in that area? The subject matter should be a dead giveaway as to what Philo's primary interest where and it wasn't documenting history.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-06-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(07-06-2016 10:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  Blush It's so nice when religious guys say things like this. Makes me all warm and tingly inside Big Grin

I like it when I make you feel warm and tingly inside.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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