About the Testimonium Flavium
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08-06-2016, 06:02 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 05:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 03:25 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Tom. In this post below it shows you do not believe nor understand what an atheist is. One does not have to be angry at a god one does not believe in to be an atheist.

I'm not sure why there's a tendency to take a remark directed at a particular poster, as made against you or atheists as a whole.

"Butthurt atheist. Probably because your mother didn't love you or someshit". Those were your words. You definitely implied that atheists are atheists not because it makes sense, but because we're emotional. Nice try dickhead.

Still no evidence for your stupid deity Smile Didn't you start a thread once saying you could prove existence of God? Or it might have been another idiot. They do run together after a while.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-06-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
In regards to Banjo's post above, I will let him clarify his meaning, if he chooses. I am posting only to support my understanding of the situation.

(08-06-2016 05:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm not sure how you see the removal of that portion as making the passage clearer, in fact it obscures the passage.

Who is "them" that was accused of being law breakers, delivered to be stoned?

Not Ananus,because the passage indicates the he was the one who brought them to be stoned, when he saw a proper opportunity with Fetus being dead, and Albinus being on the road.

Removing the passage would mean Josephus did not state who the "them" was that Ananus brought to be stoned, and accused of breaking the Jewish law.

Ananus was the high priest replaced by Jesus son of Damneus (not J.C here) as the as a result of assembling the Sandherin.

As to how you think the passage makes more sense if we remove the James part, I have no idea. It would make the passage appear as if something was omitted, in regards to the stoning, and accusations of breaking the law, that led to Ananus's replacement.

Quoting from the Wikipedia article:
Quote:Representing the contrary view, Richard Carrier argues that the words "the one called Christ" likely resulted from the accidental insertion of a marginal note added by some unknown reader.[32] Carrier proposes that the original text referred to a brother named James of the high priest Jesus ben Damneus mentioned in the same narrative. James (the brother of Jesus) is executed by Ananus. The Jews get angry at this. Complaints and demands are made. The King removes Ananus from being High Priest. Jesus ben Damneus is then made high priest.[32]

So that gives us:

Quote:But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

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If you remove the three words in question, everything still makes sense. It is also quite easy to see how three words of clarification could be added later, since the account refers to a man named Jesus, son of Damneus and Jesus the brother of James. They could be different people or they could be the same person.

It's a pretty minor point, in any case.

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08-06-2016, 06:06 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 05:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 03:25 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Tom. In this post below it shows you do not believe nor understand what an atheist is. One does not have to be angry at a god one does not believe in to be an atheist.

I'm not sure why there's a tendency to take a remark directed at a particular poster, as made against you or atheists as a whole.






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It seemed all inclusive to me.

Does anyone else agree? I no longer know where the drugs begin and I end. It can be very confusing.

An answer to this question may actually be very helpful.

I was actually interviewed yesterday about rare cancers and treatments in order to help the government understand what is going on. So my question is quite serious.

Thanks.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-06-2016, 06:07 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  "Butthurt atheist. Probably because your mother didn't love you or someshit". Those were your words. You definitely implied that atheists are atheists not because it makes sense, but because we're emotional. Nice try dickhead.

No, I implied that he was butthurt, probably because his mother didn't love him or somewhat. Not that he was an atheists because his mother didn't love him.

Quote:Didn't you start a thread once saying you could prove existence of God? Or it might have been another idiot.

No, you just confused me with another idiot.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-06-2016, 06:13 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 06:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  "Butthurt atheist. Probably because your mother didn't love you or someshit". Those were your words. You definitely implied that atheists are atheists not because it makes sense, but because we're emotional. Nice try dickhead.

No, I implied that he was butthurt, probably because his mother didn't love him or somewhat. Not that he was an atheists because his mother didn't love him.
Ah, well. You obviously had one meaning in your head. Thank you for your clairification. TBD, you are diagnosed as "butthurt because your mother doesn't love you or someshit" and incidentally an atheist. Rolleyes

Quote:
Quote:Didn't you start a thread once saying you could prove existence of God? Or it might have been another idiot.

No, you just confused me with another idiot.

It's so easy to do. I do apologise.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-06-2016, 06:15 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:06 AM)Banjo Wrote:  It seemed all inclusive to me.

Does anyone else agree? I no longer know where the drugs begin and I end. It can be very confusing.

An answer to this question may actually be very helpful.

I was actually interviewed yesterday about rare cancers and treatments in order to help the government understand what is going on. So my question is quite serious.

Thanks.

Nah, you're good. If you take that post by itself, you could argue either way. But taken in context with that series of posts (and the poster's history) then I would say you're on safe ground. Thumbsup

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-06-2016, 06:21 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:15 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 06:06 AM)Banjo Wrote:  It seemed all inclusive to me.

Does anyone else agree? I no longer know where the drugs begin and I end. It can be very confusing.

An answer to this question may actually be very helpful.

I was actually interviewed yesterday about rare cancers and treatments in order to help the government understand what is going on. So my question is quite serious.

Thanks.

Nah, you're good. If you take that post by itself, you could argue either way. But taken in context with that series of posts (and the poster's history) then I would say you're on safe ground. Thumbsup

Okay. Cheers mate. Thumbsup

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-06-2016, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 06:33 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:04 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Quoting from the Wikipedia article:
"]Representing the contrary view, Richard Carrier argues that the words "the one called Christ" likely resulted from the accidental insertion of a marginal note added by some unknown reader.[32] Carrier proposes that the original text referred to a brother named James of the high priest Jesus ben Damneus mentioned in the same narrative. James (the brother of Jesus) is executed by Ananus. The Jews get angry at this. Complaints and demands are made. The King removes Ananus from being High Priest. Jesus ben Damneus is then made high priest.[32]

It didn't likely result from an accidental insertion, in just another one of the inconvenient passage for mythicist. Nothing that supports it being a likely insertion here, no absence in other version of Josephus writing, no glowing praise for Jesus, nada.

Quote:If you remove the three words in question, everything still makes sense. It is also quite easy to see how three words of clarification could be added later, since the account refers to a man named Jesus, son of Damneus and Jesus the brother of James. They could be different people or they could be the same person.

Jesus, son of Damneus was the high priest that replaced Ananus as high priest. So stating that it was about him, would mean that Ananus had the soon to be high priest's brother stoned to death, for breaking the jewish law, and apparently got off with merely having his status of high priest revoked, for murdering such a prominent figures brother. I would think Josephus would have elaborated more on such a high family drama.

In order for this to be the case we'd have make a variety of assumption, that this is likely the case, that the high priest Jesus, son of Damneus, had a brother named James, and this brother broke the Jewish laws, and was stoned for it, and that the " "called the christ" part was a interpolation.

And apparently were's suppose to see this as more like than it was referring to James the brother of J.C. as already indicated by Paul, and Matthew, Mark, for what reason exactly? Ah because it would resolve an inconvenient dilemma for mythicist. Not because it makes more sense, lol.

Not to mention that the idea that James was a brother and supporter of a Messiah claimant, at least helps to imply why he was possibly stoned for breaking the law. As opposed to if it was the high priest Jesus, son of Damneus brother, where the reasons for the accusation would seem out of nowhere.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-06-2016, 06:31 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(08-06-2016 06:13 AM)morondog Wrote:  Ah, well. You obviously had one meaning in your head. Thank you for your clairification. TBD, you are diagnosed as "butthurt because your mother doesn't love you or someshit" and incidentally an atheist. :roll eyes:

Yes, that is the one and only meaning I had in my head.

Quote:
Quote:No, you just confused me with another idiot.

It's so easy to do. I do apologise.

Yes, it's easy to confuse one idiot with another idiot.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-06-2016, 06:32 AM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
I still want to know why Josephus and Philo never mentioned the earthquake and zombies. In those times these things were big deals. It is similar to an historian ignoring the eruption of Vesuvius and the destruction of both Herculaneum and Pompeii.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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