About the Testimonium Flavium
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01-06-2016, 03:34 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
Quote:"...the mythicist, and mythicist supporters..."
aka, the people who ask for actual evidence and reserve judgement on the existence


No, that's not the mythicist position, it's just your ignorance of their views. Mythicism is an alternative explanation to historicity, using a variety of sources, materials, the gospels, Paul etc. pagan writings, etc... in support of a conclusion they feel is better supported than historicity.

You have to understand Kindygarden Apologetics has only ONE definition of anything. How else could they memorize all the shit ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-06-2016, 03:35 PM
About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:25 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Yeah but Paul also said he meet Jesus in a "revelation" (hallucination). Not in person.

So did the mother of Emmet Till, and MLK.
Paul never met the historical Jesus, because Jesus was already dead at the time. But he had met his disciples and his brother. It's wasn't through revelation or magic that he knew a variety of Jesus ethical teachings, life, and message.

Quote: I remain neutral in the claim that Jesus existed. I'm waiting for the evidence to show me otherwise.

Yes, we all know how many atheists have an affinity towards lacking a belief, their inability to draw a conclusion one way or the other, and their expectations that others hold their hands off their fence.

Folks like Carrier, Doherty, Price etc.. no matter what can be said about them, at least they're not agnostic on the question.




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 03:40 PM
About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Quote:No, Josephus didn't say Jesus was the messiah in the James passage, but was called the Messiah. The passage is found in every copy of Josephus available, including the greek, and is almost universally agreed upon by scholars as authentic.

Prove it. Here. Now.
Irrelevant. Vespasian was Josephus' messiah. The earliest t copy of Josephus is centuries LATER, after the fake interpolation. There is NOTHING contemporaneous.

You want me to prove the negative, that there is no real evidence for an interpolation? The passage is found in every copy of Josephus, including the Greek, and is unlike the testimonium is regarded almost I impishly as authentic.

Of course that can't be so for mythicist, so they have to stretch credulity to suggest otherwise.

Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 03:44 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 02:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, that's not the mythicist position, it's just your ignorance of their views. Mythicism is an alternative explanation to historicity, using a variety of sources, materials, the gospels, Paul etc. pagan writings, etc... in support of a conclusion they feel is better supported than historicity.

Laugh out load

Look at you and your straw man, it's so cute when you think you're thinking.

Straw man AND false dichotomy. Drinking Beverage

Typical Tommy tall tales tantamount to tap-dancing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-06-2016, 03:45 PM
About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 02:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If a person named Yeshua existed to as the basis for the Jesus character, what does that mean about the stories attributed to him?

That a person named Yeshua's, life, history, message, and meaning served as the basis of the Gospels, and NT writings, and Christianity as a whole.




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 03:46 PM
About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Laugh out load

Look at you and your straw man, it's so cute when you think you're thinking.

Straw man AND false dichotomy. Drinking Beverage

Typical Tommy tall tales tantamount to tap-dancing.


Is that a strawman of Carrier views, or supposedly yours?


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 03:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Prove it. Here. Now.
Irrelevant. Vespasian was Josephus' messiah. The earliest t copy of Josephus is centuries LATER, after the fake interpolation. There is NOTHING contemporaneous.

You want me to prove the negative, that there is no real evidence for an interpolation? The passage is found in every copy of Josephus, including the Greek, and is unlike the testimonium is regarded almost I impishly as authentic.

Of course that can't be so for mythicist, so they have to stretch credulity to suggest otherwise.

Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic.






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You do realize that everyone can read the original comments and questions you're replying to and see that you're bullshit tactics are not progressing your mythology not supporting your assertions, right?

So when you claim that "every copy" contains something to corroborate your position, and then you're asked to substantiate it with evidence, it isn't you being asked to prove a negative but you being asked to support your bullshit claim by actually showing the existence of said passage in "every copy, including Greek."

And once again, levying a criticism of your bullshit ( "Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic." ) onto others is a dishonest and ignorant tactic.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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01-06-2016, 03:49 PM
About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 03:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You want me to prove the negative, that there is no real evidence for an interpolation? The passage is found in every copy of Josephus, including the Greek, and is unlike the testimonium is regarded almost I impishly as authentic.

Of course that can't be so for mythicist, so they have to stretch credulity to suggest otherwise.

Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic.






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You do realize that everyone can read the original comments and questions you're replying to and see that you're bullshit tactics are not progressing your mythology not supporting your assertions, right?

So when you claim that "every copy" contains something to corroborate your position, and then you're asked to substantiate it with evidence, it isn't you being asked to prove a negative but you being asked to support your bullshit claim by actually showing the existence of said passage in "every copy, including Greek."

And once again, levying a criticism of your bullshit ( "Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic." ) onto others is a dishonest and ignorant tactic.

Hahaha.

If your fat ass is too fucking lazy to do a google search, don't expect me to do it for you.





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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-06-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:45 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If a person named Yeshua existed to as the basis for the Jesus character, what does that mean about the stories attributed to him?

That a person named Yeshua's, life, history, message, and meaning served as the basis of the Gospels, and NT writings, and Christianity as a whole.




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Which means what with respect to the validity or truth-content of the claims of the bible?

Why is Jesus more important than Batman? Why do you worship the bible and not Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" as a religion?

Are the stories of Paul Bunyan now true and factual because the character in them may be based on a real person?

Would Christianity as a religion be less if it's Jesus were not real? Ergo, do its claims and morals not speak for themselves as meaningful and true and useful without needing a "based on a real character" disclaimer?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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01-06-2016, 03:51 PM
RE: About the Testimonium Flavium
(01-06-2016 03:49 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 03:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You do realize that everyone can read the original comments and questions you're replying to and see that you're bullshit tactics are not progressing your mythology not supporting your assertions, right?

So when you claim that "every copy" contains something to corroborate your position, and then you're asked to substantiate it with evidence, it isn't you being asked to prove a negative but you being asked to support your bullshit claim by actually showing the existence of said passage in "every copy, including Greek."

And once again, levying a criticism of your bullshit ( "Brush it all under the rug, seems to be the typical tactic." ) onto others is a dishonest and ignorant tactic.

Hahaha.

If your fat ass is too fucking lazy to do a google search, don't expect me to do it for you.





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And an ad hominem.

Straw men. False dichotomy. Red herrings.

You're running the gambit on this thread, you ignorant cunt.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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