Absence of evidence
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22-08-2015, 07:45 AM
Absence of evidence
Who the fuck has ever claimed there exists proof positive for nonexistence?

Absence of expected evidence would lead to the conclusion of implausibility. But that is NOT a claim of positive proof of nonexistence. It is a lack of expected positive proof based on specific claims.

No one has claimed evidence that aliens don't exist, but a lack of current evidence leads to the conclusion they don't exist. But they are plausible, which is why we look. It is also the same reason scientists look for evidence of the multiverse hypothesis.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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22-08-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 04:09 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 09:17 PM)Free Wrote:  There is no back pedalling here at all, only an attempt at deception by you.

On the other thread I said that if we looked for aliens approaching earth and seen none, then the claim that aliens were approaching earth was proven false.

It has nothing to do with whether or not aliens could possibly be approaching earth.

Here's the actual conversation regarding that, just so people can see the truth for themselves, since your link takes them deceptively to a completely unrelated post:






Nice try, liar.

The claim is not proven to be false, but only failed to be proven true. In other words "unproved" rather than "disproved."

By your flawed logic, we could also say with certainty that there isn't intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

You can't tell the difference between unproved and disproved. I was hoping the video would help.....

What's the point of all your lies here? What do you hope to gain? It's been proven that you lied about what I said.

When someone makes a claim, it can mean unproven, or it can also mean false. A claim is normally regarded as unproven when there is some evidence to support it, but not enough to prove it.

A claim is rightfully considered false when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support it. If this wasn't the standard to gauge false claims, then anything anyone could say or imagine would possibly be true.

Now here is what a false claim is:

1 + 1 = 3.

If I claim that as false, does your fucked up mind say something to the effect that "It's not false, it's only unproven?"

Who the fuck lives in reality and does that?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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22-08-2015, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 09:22 AM by Matt Finney.)
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  What's the point of all your lies here? What do you hope to gain?

I'm trying to help you all learn to think.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  When someone makes a claim, it can mean unproven, or it can also mean false. A claim is normally regarded as unproven when there is some evidence to support it, but not enough to prove it.

For people who have no comprehension of scientific method, yes. For the rest of us.

claim proven = true

claim disproved = false

claim unproven = ?

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  A claim is rightfully considered false when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support it.

We have no evidence of alien spacecraft, but this doesn't make the proposition false, only unproven.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  If this wasn't the standard to gauge false claims, then anything anyone could say or imagine would possibly be true.

No, if we don't know whether or not something exists, then we don't know that it is possible. We wouldn't know whether or not it is possible.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  Now here is what a false claim is:

1 + 1 = 3.

If I claim that as false, does your fucked up mind say something to the effect that "It's not false, it's only unproven?"

Who the fuck lives in reality and does that?

No, 1+1=3 can easily be disproven....Big Grin
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22-08-2015, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 09:56 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Absence of evidence
It occurs to me that this subject is kinda something I should know something about.

I haz an idea.

Idea

See Assessment of Evidence here.

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22-08-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 09:12 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  What's the point of all your lies here? What do you hope to gain?

I'm trying to help you all learn to think.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  When someone makes a claim, it can mean unproven, or it can also mean false. A claim is normally regarded as unproven when there is some evidence to support it, but not enough to prove it.

For people who have no comprehension of scientific method, yes. For the rest of us.

claim proven = true

claim disproved = false

claim unproven = ?

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  A claim is rightfully considered false when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support it.

We have no evidence of alien spacecraft, but this doesn't make the proposition false, only unproven.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  If this wasn't the standard to gauge false claims, then anything anyone could say or imagine would possibly be true.

No, if we don't know whether or not something exists, then we don't know that it is possible. We wouldn't know whether or not it is possible.

(22-08-2015 08:53 AM)Free Wrote:  Now here is what a false claim is:

1 + 1 = 3.

If I claim that as false, does your fucked up mind say something to the effect that "It's not false, it's only unproven?"

Who the fuck lives in reality and does that?

No, 1+1=3 can easily be disproven....Big Grin

You keep conflating evidence and proof. They are not the same thing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 09:12 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  I'm trying to help you all learn to think.


For people who have no comprehension of scientific method, yes. For the rest of us.

claim proven = true

claim disproved = false

claim unproven = ?


We have no evidence of alien spacecraft, but this doesn't make the proposition false, only unproven.


No, if we don't know whether or not something exists, then we don't know that it is possible. We wouldn't know whether or not it is possible.


No, 1+1=3 can easily be disproven....Big Grin

You keep conflating evidence and proof. They are not the same thing.

Ok, just assume that for the purposes of this discussion that when I say evidence, I'm talking about evidence that is sufficient to make a conclusion. Cool
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22-08-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 09:58 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You keep conflating evidence and proof. They are not the same thing.

Ok, just assume that for the purposes of this discussion that when I say evidence, I'm talking about evidence that is sufficient to make a conclusion. Cool

It doesn't change any of the responses to your questions and shifting goal posts.

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22-08-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 09:58 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You keep conflating evidence and proof. They are not the same thing.

Ok, just assume that for the purposes of this discussion that when I say evidence, I'm talking about evidence that is sufficient to make a conclusion. Cool

Which is still not the same thing.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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22-08-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
Gods are not plausible because there exists no evidence and no logical argument (consistent with reality) to demonstrate they are plausible. They are garage dragons.

Extraterrestrial life, intelligent aliens, alien spacecrafts <- these are all detectable if they exist and given the existence of life on Earth, intelligent life on Earth, and space shuttles and rockets, it is plausible that they exist. No such evidence confirming their existence has been found. So, the only logical conclusion is that they do not exist, but that does not mean they cannot exist.

This is not the case with gods, because there is no evidence to suggest they are plausible. So the only logical conclusion is that gods don't exist AND they are not plausible.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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22-08-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: Absence of evidence
(22-08-2015 10:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Gods are not plausible because there exists no evidence and no logical argument (consistent with reality) to demonstrate they are plausible. They are garage dragons.

Extraterrestrial life, intelligent aliens, alien spacecrafts <- these are all detectable if they exist and given the existence of life on Earth, intelligent life on Earth, and space shuttles and rockets, it is plausible that they exist. No such evidence confirming their existence has been found. So, the only logical conclusion is that they do not exist, but that does not mean they cannot exist.

This is not the case with gods, because there is no evidence to suggest they are plausible. So the only logical conclusion is that gods don't exist AND they are not plausible.

I agree with pretty much everything you said except I don't think we can conclude that aliens don't exist. And, while I agree that the god theory is implausible, I wouldn't go as far to say that I know it is impossible (I know that you aren't claiming god to be impossible here either, but just wanted to add that for clarification on my position).
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