Acts 16:31b
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25-08-2012, 10:08 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
(22-08-2012 05:30 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  When I was a kid, I was in a church youth group called AWANA. We played games, sang songs, and memorized bible verses... but in some cases we didn't memorize entire verses. Only in my atheistic adulthood is it clear why.

One of the verses that practically every bible-reading Christian has learned is Acts 16:31a

Quote:They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved...

It's called "31a" because it's the first half of that verse -- the "important" part to some. So how does that verse end?

Quote:Acts 16:31b ...you and your household."

According to the bible, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ will bring salvation to you and your entire household. Who knew? I guess, despite being an atheist, my parents' Christianity is good enough to save me.

No modern Christian believes that... to them, the first half of that verse is literally true but the second half is metaphorically true. A theist might say that it means a Christian will preach to his or her household, saving them... but that would mean it only works sometimes (like in my personal case), and the bible doesn't give any such caveat. However, this verse's "b" section seems to be consistent with other things we know about God's nature from the bible.

Quote:Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

So what do you think? Does this verse make it clear that God saves entire households that contain a believer? Or do you have a different theory?

I prefer the KJV. I do worry about the property. My grampa spent a lifetime building the house,
and I want it to go to Jeebus with me. He is after all, the real-estate savior, is he not ?

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house."

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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25-08-2012, 10:22 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
Anyone else seeing an attempt to link the god of Paul to the household gods (pl. Lares, sing. Lar) of the Romans?

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25-08-2012, 10:47 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
(22-08-2012 06:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It says in Romans that He hated Esau and loved Jacob. His love and hate have no condition. It is completely up to God.

Well, sort of, but not really. Love and/or hate are pretty conditionally subscribed to and describe the character that is God. God always likes a winner and he thinks Esau is a pussy. But Jacob is a conniving little weasel who always takes what he can get how ever he can. The only difference being, Jacob would fuck his own brother for the right price.

God resents Esau's regular guyness, whereas Jacob likely reminds God of himself. Dodgy
Seriously, Esau and Jacob are twins - metaphorically they represent the duality of every man. Make no mistake - Esau isn't a goody two shoes - he's a slacker and he's even killed people... but at least he wasn't cheating his own brother.

I only really recall very little about any of this part of the story. However, I knew a girl in jr high who's last name was Esau - she was a completely subservient little moron. Maybe she was just trying to live up to God's hatred of her name sake? Or maybe she was proving God's point that anyone named Esau was a loser.

Anyway, the duality metaphor extends to God... that is of course, if one can think of one's self as God. And I don't know why not. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-08-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
I'm going to try and play devils advocate here.



Listen, my beloved, you are taking it out of context.

Open your heart. Feel, what the good lord is trying to tell you. Keep on knocking, and the answers will be revealed. You have to want it.



IDK man. IDK

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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25-08-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
(25-08-2012 10:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He is after all, the real-estate savior, is he not ?
"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house."

Oh, tell me about it - they were all about real-estate back then! It's property this, birthright that... you can't swing a dead cat without someone exchanging animals for something. You'd think they'd be well off but frankly, most had a shitty standard of living. Sheesh... Nomads. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-08-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Acts 16:31b
(25-08-2012 10:47 PM)kim Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 06:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  It says in Romans that He hated Esau and loved Jacob. His love and hate have no condition. It is completely up to God.

Well, sort of, but not really. Love and/or hate are pretty conditionally subscribed to and describe the character that is God. God always likes a winner and he thinks Esau is a pussy. But Jacob is a conniving little weasel who always takes what he can get how ever he can. The only difference being, Jacob would fuck his own brother for the right price.

God resents Esau's regular guyness, whereas Jacob likely reminds God of himself. Dodgy
Seriously, Esau and Jacob are twins - metaphorically they represent the duality of every man. Make no mistake - Esau isn't a goody two shoes - he's a slacker and he's even killed people... but at least he wasn't cheating his own brother.

I only really recall very little about any of this part of the story. However, I knew a girl in jr high who's last name was Esau - she was a completely subservient little moron. Maybe she was just trying to live up to God's hatred of her name sake? Or maybe she was proving God's point that anyone named Esau was a loser.

Anyway, the duality metaphor extends to God... that is of course, if one can think of one's self as God. And I don't know why not. Wink

I had forgotten about all that. I need to go find it somewhere. Esau was the "guy's guy", the hunter, and Jacob was a wussy momma's boy, who hung around the tents all day, and the text made no attempt to hide that's what they intended, to say, and intended that be seen. There's more to that, but I can't remember where I was reading about that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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26-08-2012, 10:05 AM
RE: Acts 16:31b
(25-08-2012 10:01 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed

Awana

The mission of Awana is to help "churches and parents worldwide raise children and youth to know, love and serve Christ."
If any child were born a Christian then this place wouldn't exist.

I was in that thing too.

If we are to believe the popular theology that unborn children and children who haven't reached "the age of understanding" go to Heaven, then yes, Christianity posits that children are born Christian -- or at least born saved from Hell, something they lose as soon as they sin or reach a certain age/level of reasoning (it differs between denominations and possibly between individual churches).

I believe AWANA's stated mission is a bit different from their actual mission -- propoganda. Teaching kids to learn bible verses out of context isn't very rational, and rewarding kids for knowledge rather than application of that knowledge (as the boy scout/girl scout badges do) seems to bear out that goal of simply learning as much misinformation as possible. I have many fond memories of AWANA, but I didn't start to think freely until I was finally out of "youth groups" altogether.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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