Acupuncture: Real or Fake
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01-01-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Acupuncture can cure nothing. Nada. Zip.

You have every right to reject acupuncture as a treatment option.

I will continue to be a strong believer in the curative powers of acupuncture.

It does get frustrating when I wire up my body, treating different important, recommended points on different meridians, only to have absolutely no positive results. This happens more times than not, but, then again, I have no training with using electro-acupuncture, only some really great acupuncture software.

But then, once in a while, like with my cured neck pain, or my improved sinuses, it works, much to my surprise.

Another alternative cure that I have been using, at home, is sublingual immunotherapy (SLIT). SLIT is supposed to lessen the effects of allergies and asthma. It works by putting a drop of allergen under the tongue. So... I figure, instead of spending the bucks to have some doctor send me drops of allergen, I would create my own allergen, and use that. It has really helped to improve my asthma.

(01-01-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  The placebo effect treats symptoms.

If it helps relieve my asthma, or helps relieve pain, then I don't care about the rest. I just want to symptoms to go away. And... I feel that most patients feel the same way.

Is there free will in Heaven? Do "souls" age in Heaven? What if you get to Heaven, for an eternity, and find it boring and tedious and torturous, especially without booze or sex? And... what if you can't get along with God?
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01-01-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 11:12 AM)Machaon Wrote:  I will continue to be a strong believer in the curative powers of acupuncture.

The point is that it doesn't cure anything. It may relieve symptoms and to that extent it may be beneficial whether it is placebo or not. The danger is when people use it instead of looking for actual cures.

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01-01-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 10:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(01-01-2015 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Acupuncture can cure nothing. Nada. Zip.

The placebo effect treats symptoms.

Yeah, I know it's placebo effect. I totally understand this but it's the one goofy woo thing I do.

It relaxes me which allows my muscles to relax which allows the muscles to heal and the pain to subside. It's also the soft music they play, the nice calm room, the soothing colors of the walls, the little water fountain tinkling in the corner, the attention one receives and the emotions being stilled.

It's just a super nice experience and it releases some nice chemicals in the brain.

I like it. So there.

Have you considered getting a massage instead? It seems like you get get the same results without the needles.

And, having tried both, if I want to relax I'd choose massage hands down (pun intended Tongue ). Some massage therapists make ridiculous claims on par with any other form of alternative medicine which I'm sure is all b.s., but even so, it feels damn good.

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01-01-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
Quote:Props for Science Based Medicine,

But..but...but...what about jebus driving demons into pigs and stuff?

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01-01-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 11:34 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:Props for Science Based Medicine,

But..but...but...what about jebus driving demons into pigs and stuff?

I'm pretty sure that actually happened. Why do you think bacon tastes so good?

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01-01-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
Most practices in ANY field will cause harm if done incorrectly; direct physical action alters physical structure; doing it wrong has a greater likelihood of harming the structure than having no effect. Which is to say that if acupuncture is harmless no matter how incorrectly it is performed, it's most likely useless no matter how it gets performed.

Notice that the one poster here claiming its virtues as being "permanent" still attempts to apply a "homer use" version of it. So much for permanence. And he's trying to apply the "home use" version without training. Could there be any clearer picture of an ineffective practice?
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01-01-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 11:30 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(01-01-2015 10:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yeah, I know it's placebo effect. I totally understand this but it's the one goofy woo thing I do.

It relaxes me which allows my muscles to relax which allows the muscles to heal and the pain to subside. It's also the soft music they play, the nice calm room, the soothing colors of the walls, the little water fountain tinkling in the corner, the attention one receives and the emotions being stilled.

It's just a super nice experience and it releases some nice chemicals in the brain.

I like it. So there.

Have you considered getting a massage instead? It seems like you get get the same results without the needles.

And, having tried both, if I want to relax I'd choose massage hands down (pun intended Tongue ). Some massage therapists make ridiculous claims on par with any other form of alternative medicine which I'm sure is all b.s., but even so, it feels damn good.

Yeah, I like massages too but they don't have the soft music, little water fountain and all the other stuff. The whole experience of acupuncture releases more endorphins for me. I feel like I'm floating and high on some drug. It's great.

The best would be to combine both things.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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01-01-2015, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2015 02:16 PM by Machaon.)
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
For those who are interested, I've attached a picture of my acupuncture stimulator and a treatment that I had given myself. The treatment was not successful, but that doesn't matter.

What does matter is that, over the past 70 years I have cured some health problems where my doctors and specialists could not. During this time, I have made mistakes that have caused some additional health problems, but they were minor problems compared to the cures. As an Atheist, I don't believe that doctors and specialists are gods, they are merely people who chose to work on bodies rather than cars or toilets.

The treatment below was for drop-foot. I had lost the ability to raise my left foot. The treatment, and subsequent treatments on different points and meridians, did not help. (Where is Placebo, just when you need him!?)

[img][Image: kwdacup_zps40c77fd6.jpg][/img]

[Image: numbleftleg1_zpsba81dda3.jpg]

Is there free will in Heaven? Do "souls" age in Heaven? What if you get to Heaven, for an eternity, and find it boring and tedious and torturous, especially without booze or sex? And... what if you can't get along with God?
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01-01-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 01:49 PM)Machaon Wrote:  For those who are interested, I've attached a picture of my acupuncture stimulator and a treatment that I had given myself. The treatment was not successful, but that doesn't matter.

What does matter is that, over the past 70 years I have cured some health problems where my doctors and specialists could not. During this time, I have made mistakes that have caused some additional health problems, but they were minor problems compared to the cures. As an Atheist, I don't believe that doctors and specialists are gods, they are merely people who chose to work on bodies rather than cars or toilets.

The treatment below was for drop-foot. I had lost the ability to raise my left foot. The treatment, and subsequent treatments on different points and meridians, did not help.

[img][Image: kwdacup_zps40c77fd6.jpg][/img]

[Image: numbleftleg1_zpsba81dda3.jpg]

Isn't that a TENS machine? Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746624/


There's some thought that the stimulation of the electrodes sort of scramble the pain signal to the brain thereby reducing the pain. But that looks like a TENS machine. It's different than acupuncture.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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01-01-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: Acupuncture: Real or Fake
(01-01-2015 01:49 PM)Machaon Wrote:  For those who are interested, I've attached a picture of my acupuncture stimulator and a treatment that I had given myself. The treatment was not successful, but that doesn't matter.

What does matter is that, over the past 70 years I have cured some health problems where my doctors and specialists could not. During this time, I have made mistakes that have caused some additional health problems, but they were minor problems compared to the cures. As an Atheist, I don't believe that doctors and specialists are gods, they are merely people who chose to work on bodies rather than cars or toilets.

The treatment below was for drop-foot. I had lost the ability to raise my left foot. The treatment, and subsequent treatments on different points and meridians, did not help. (Where is Placebo, just when you need him!?)

[img][Image: kwdacup_zps40c77fd6.jpg][/img]

[Image: numbleftleg1_zpsba81dda3.jpg]

That's not acupuncture. Try again. Drinking Beverage

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