Acupuncture...why is this supported?
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29-09-2015, 09:43 AM
Acupuncture...why is this supported?
So I was reading a little bit about acupuncture and found several sources that I had thought to credible that support (or at least don't refute) acupuncture.

from https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction , the US Department of Health and Human Services:

"The effects of acupuncture on the brain and body and how best to measure them are only beginning to be understood. Current evidence suggests that many factors—like expectation and belief—that are unrelated to acupuncture needling may play important roles in the beneficial effects of acupuncture on pain."(bold mine)

Isn't that basically saying that it's just the placebo effect? That in the middle of an article that basically tells you it is good for pain relief. Why don't they just come out and say "hey this is the placebo effect do it if you want but it has no medical justification."

WebMD has a similar article: http://www.webmd.com/fibromyalgia/tc/acu...c-overview which even goes into how to choose an acupuncturist.
There are a lot of sources that say it's bullshit but I was wondering how respectable sources get away with advocating this?

Apparently acupuncture will help relieve pain, but good studies show it to be the placebo effect in action, so why don't medical professionals just say that?

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom. -Jack Sparrow
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29-09-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
Ya gotta love a guy who can convince people that it's in their best interest to pay him to stick needles in them - and SOMEHOW this is going to relieve their pain.

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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29-09-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
(29-09-2015 09:43 AM)Imathinker Wrote:  There are a lot of sources that say it's bullshit but I was wondering how respectable sources get away with advocating this?

The test results are completely subjective; so, it can't be proven to not have an effect. They're just forgetting where the burden of proof lies.
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29-09-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
For mild pain symptomes caused by stress, minor case of arthritis, muscular pain, etc. palcebos have lot of effect, are much cheaper than real medecine and have no side effect. That's why doctors love to have access to placebo treatments with the reputation of actually working. The more you are convinced of the efficency of the placebo the more it has chances of working on you. My grandmother was prescribed by her doctors homeopathic medecine for mild pain caused by her prosthetic limbs. Acuponcture is like a fancy form of therapeutical massage. It releaves stress and can dull pain, gives a very nice illusion of actualy working and is far less problematic than taking actual meds for minor problems.
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29-09-2015, 10:00 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
Years ago, when I was pregnant with my first my OB recommended acupuncture for my lower back pain, since I could't take pain meds.

Now, I don't know if it worked or if it was just the table they me lay on (it was designed for pregnant women to lay on their belly). But whatever it was, it really did help.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-09-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
So would you say doctors let people believe that acupuncture works because it is such a good placebo and is useful for pain? Because it seems to be established that there is zero evidence behind it.

A man should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. -Ferris Bueller

That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom. -Jack Sparrow
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29-09-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
I think that Brian Dunning once described acupuncture as astrology with needles. It's about as accurate a description as any other.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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29-09-2015, 10:30 AM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
(29-09-2015 10:17 AM)Imathinker Wrote:  So would you say doctors let people believe that acupuncture works because it is such a good placebo and is useful for pain? Because it seems to be established that there is zero evidence behind it.

No I wouldn't say that doctors «promote» or lead people to believe acupuncture works. They sometime suggest their patients to take remedies that are in fact placebos (even if they are marketed by other people has genuine treatment) amongst them acupuncture or homeopathie. The more a placebo has a reputation of working the greater its chance of working is. The opposite is also true. If I give you placebo for mild pain and tell: «this is a placebo, it works with the power of your imagination.», chances are that it will have no effect.
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29-09-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
I have a chronic pain disease and i get treatment from physiotherapy on weekly basis and the treatment always starts with laser-acupuncture, the meaning for this is to release tension and warm up the muscles. Wich it does at least for me. But i guess the laser-acupuncture is way different than the chinese needles- acupuncture..

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29-09-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Acupuncture...why is this supported?
I hope researchers can someday find a way to tap into the placebo effect that doesn't force patients to be deceived--or to shell out a bunch of money.

Acupuncture's not for me, though. My miracle drugs are aspirin and Aleve.
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