Ad hominem attacks
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08-07-2015, 01:32 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(07-07-2015 08:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(07-07-2015 04:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Example would be more realistic if believer would have started with bullshit about hell I think. Such approach is indeed countrproductive and simply rude, but I don't care if theist who hear it would cling more to his delusion.

As for why frustration could be the case, also atheist could be a jerk. However at some point such answer could be fitting as there is no point in arguing with one who is indoctrinated.

About feeling superior, don't know about the others but for me it's rather pity than something else. If I would be subjected to indoctrination then I probably would spout nonsense like this; I was not, but others weren't so lucky. So it's not superiority but pity as it's not (entirelly?) believer fault. However to be honest sometimes I can help but feel superior, but it takes extreme religious idiocy.


I enjoyed your answer, but I am always careful of pity. I agree with the below.

“Pity preserves things that are ripe for decline, it defends things that have been disowned and condemned by life, and it gives a depressive and questionable character to life itself by keeping alive an abundance of failures of every type. People have dared to call pity a virtue… people have gone even further, making it into the virtue, the foundation and source of all virtues, - but of course you always have to keep in mind that this was the perspective of a nihilistic philosophy that inscribed the negation of life on its shield. Schopenhauer was right here: pity negates life, it makes life worthy of negation, - pity is the practice of nihilism. Once more: this depressive and contagious instinct runs counter to the instincts that preserve and enhance the value of life: by multiplying misery just as much as by conserving everything miserable, pity is one of the main tools used to increase decadence - pity wins people over to nothingness! … You do not say ‘nothingness’ : instead you say ‘the beyond’; or ‘God’; or ‘the true life’; or nirvana, salvation, blessedness … This innocent rhetoric from the realm of religious-moral idiosyncrasy suddenly appears much less innocent when you see precisely which tendencies are wrapped up inside these sublime words: tendencies hostile to life.”


― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Anti-Christ

I see nothing wrong in pity if definition looks that or close: The feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the sufferings and misfortunes of others.

I see religious indoctrination as misfortune and religion as something that may cause suffering to believers (cause it sure do cause it for others, Poland is prime example) without - not entirely maybe - their fault. It's not easy to shake of indoctrination and years of practice or withstand peer pressure so for those who still believe I feel sorrow. Not to deep though.

For those who wish to impose their religious taboo on others, though I have only scorn.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2015, 01:46 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 01:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I see nothing wrong in pity if definition looks that or close: The feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the sufferings and misfortunes of others.

I see religious indoctrination as misfortune and religion as something that may cause suffering to believers (cause it sure do cause it for others, Poland is prime example) without - not entirely maybe - their fault. It's not easy to shake of indoctrination and years of practice or withstand peer pressure so for those who still believe I feel sorrow. Not to deep though.

For those who wish to impose their religious taboo on others, though I have only scorn.


Just a difference of opinion. I prefer empathy. Smile

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08-07-2015, 01:59 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 01:46 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(08-07-2015 01:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I see nothing wrong in pity if definition looks that or close: The feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the sufferings and misfortunes of others.

I see religious indoctrination as misfortune and religion as something that may cause suffering to believers (cause it sure do cause it for others, Poland is prime example) without - not entirely maybe - their fault. It's not easy to shake of indoctrination and years of practice or withstand peer pressure so for those who still believe I feel sorrow. Not to deep though.

For those who wish to impose their religious taboo on others, though I have only scorn.


Just a difference of opinion. I prefer empathy. Smile

Sure. It's no USSR difference of opinion is (should be?) valued Smile

While I feel somehwat sad for believers I don't really care about their happiness nor I'm interested in deconverting them. To be honest I truly care only about freedom of others not their happiness or lack of it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2015, 02:02 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 01:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  While I feel somehwat sad for believers I don't really care about their happiness nor I'm interested in deconverting them. To be honest I truly care only about freedom of others not their happiness or lack of it.


We are similar in this regard.

In the past I have been interested in deconversion. If only for the safety of the future. But perhaps I overestimated myself. Blush

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-07-2015, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2015 02:19 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 02:02 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(08-07-2015 01:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  While I feel somehwat sad for believers I don't really care about their happiness nor I'm interested in deconverting them. To be honest I truly care only about freedom of others not their happiness or lack of it.


We are similar in this regard.

In the past I have been interested in deconversion. If only for the safety of the future. But perhaps I overestimated myself. Blush

I would say great mind think alike but it's kinda overused statement Wink

I lack the patience to try, though it don't matter as firstly I don't want to try. Thing that matter is freedom form religious oppression not deconverting the god flock.

Edit: I think Marx got it right when he said: Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. As long as I live in poor country with idiots reulling it religion would thrive as only thing that could give hope to oppressed.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2015, 02:23 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 02:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Thing that matter is freedom form religious oppression not deconverting the god flock.

Well this can be one and the same. By deconversion we reduce the numbers of those wishing to oppress others. But of course with the rise of Islam, especially in Europe, it is kind of a waste of time. The problem with arguing with Muslims is they may track one down and it will end horribly. Christians are a little different. When it comes down to it, it is two sides of the same coin.

Then there is us atheists just wishing to be left in peace. But for thousands of years we were hunted down and murdered. It is why Socrates is said to have been executed. For influencing the minds of the young. In other words, teaching them critical thought.

Oh well....Weeping

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-07-2015, 02:30 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 02:23 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(08-07-2015 02:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Thing that matter is freedom form religious oppression not deconverting the god flock.

Well this can be one and the same. By deconversion we reduce the numbers of those wishing to oppress others. But of course with the rise of Islam, especially in Europe, it is kind of a waste of time. The problem with arguing with Muslims is they may track one down and it will end horribly. Christians are a little different. When it comes down to it, it is two sides of the same coin.

Then there is us atheists just wishing to be left in peace. But for thousands of years we were hunted down and murdered. It is why Socrates is said to have been executed. For influencing the minds of the young. In other words, teaching them critical thought.

Oh well....Weeping

Yes but deconversion is inefficient and may simply not work. It's indoctrination and shitty living condition that are true problem I would say. As long as churches and parents are free to brainwash deconverting is battle that is already lost; while I can see limiting church ability to indoctrinate, parents are different matter.

Atheist can be left in peace only in prosperous country in which state take care of it's citiziens I would say. As long as there is poverty religion will thrive, as long as education isn't about critical thinking religion will thrive. So if one wan't to live without fear of religious oppression one should try to improve living conditions of populace - one who is happy hardly need god who will give him something I would say.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2015, 02:33 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(08-07-2015 02:30 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Yes but deconversion is inefficient and may simply not work. It's indoctrination and shitty living condition that are true problem I would say. As long as churches and parents are free to brainwash deconverting is battle that is already lost; while I can see limiting church ability to indoctrinate, parents are different matter.

Atheist can be left in peace only in prosperous country in which state take care of it's citiziens I would say. As long as there is poverty religion will thrive, as long as education isn't about critical thinking religion will thrive. So if one wan't to live without fear of religious oppression one should try to improve living conditions of populace - one who is happy hardly need god who will give him something I would say.

Agreed.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-07-2015, 02:51 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
(07-07-2015 02:32 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  Fucking nobhead!
(07-07-2015 02:44 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  pricks
(07-07-2015 02:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  assholes.
(07-07-2015 04:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  jerk
(07-07-2015 05:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  troll
unfogged Wrote:stupid
(07-07-2015 06:50 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  kooks
(07-07-2015 07:39 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  retard.

OK, guys, simmer down! No need to be so aggressive.

(I can't believe Whiskey let me down, there)

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08-07-2015, 03:01 AM
RE: Ad hominem attacks
When a troll is a troll and is then caught out and lets down his character by exposing his true self, I feel vindicated DLJ. Popsthebuilder allowed his true self to show on a number of occasions when his english skills suddenly improved when he reverted to insults. A true troll if ever there was one.

Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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