Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
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10-09-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(10-09-2014 02:17 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  One of the problems is the little voice that says "It won't get that far. Don't worry. Look at dad: he drank a 12-pack every day for over 20 years. He's still alive and kicking. And that's him. You're you. You're awesome. You've got even more of a handle on this than he did. You're immortal. So have a drink, son."

I'm sure the voice is just blowing smoke up my ass, but it sounds damn convincing. Even when I know it's wrong.

Another problem is bringing myself to care whether or not it gets that far. I've got health issues, yeah, but they're relatively minor in comparison to...you know...being dead. But even if I were on the brink of death, would I care? I really don't know.
This is a perfect example of how you talk yourself out of it being serious. But in fact it's very serious. That's why you can't do this alone and really need to get some help with it. You may have relatively minor problems now (although I'm not sure I agree with that), but that won't last forever. It will get more serious. Much more. Why not take care of things now while the issues aren't irreversible?

(10-09-2014 02:17 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  But even if I were on the brink of death, would I care? I really don't know.
Yes, you would. You might not realize that you care if that time came - because that would be the alcoholism clouding your brain - but yes, you would care.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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12-09-2014, 12:54 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(10-09-2014 10:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 02:17 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  One of the problems is the little voice that says "It won't get that far. Don't worry. Look at dad: he drank a 12-pack every day for over 20 years. He's still alive and kicking. And that's him. You're you. You're awesome. You've got even more of a handle on this than he did. You're immortal. So have a drink, son."

I'm sure the voice is just blowing smoke up my ass, but it sounds damn convincing. Even when I know it's wrong.

Another problem is bringing myself to care whether or not it gets that far. I've got health issues, yeah, but they're relatively minor in comparison to...you know...being dead. But even if I were on the brink of death, would I care? I really don't know.
This is a perfect example of how you talk yourself out of it being serious. But in fact it's very serious. That's why you can't do this alone and really need to get some help with it. You may have relatively minor problems now (although I'm not sure I agree with that), but that won't last forever. It will get more serious. Much more. Why not take care of things now while the issues aren't irreversible?

(10-09-2014 02:17 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  But even if I were on the brink of death, would I care? I really don't know.
Yes, you would. You might not realize that you care if that time came - because that would be the alcoholism clouding your brain - but yes, you would care.

It's worth noting that I've been suicidal since before I began drinking. In fact I eventually picked up the bottle in the interest of slow, passive suicide.

Food for thought.

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12-09-2014, 12:55 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(10-09-2014 05:41 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 12:06 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Since some have asked: I've been sober for just over a week. (Not an accomplishment; it's happened before) Sadly, it's by force again, rather than by choice. My stomach ulcer has become much worse and now I can barely eat anything without waking up with a knife twisting into my gut; let alone drink irritating alcohol. I'll be seeing my doctor soon to get a blood test to see if I may have an H. pylori infection which is slowing down the healing process. Until then, I'm sober. Don't want to be, but, I have to be. I'll confess, I've got a fridge full of beer and even bought a bunch of new fancy beer-drinking glasses that I just had to have. The temptation is everywhere, and unlike once before, I've not taken steps to rid myself of it. It's driving me crazy, but I have little choice but to see this through.

After everything, it seems I have no real intention of quitting. I like to think I do. I like to think that talking will turn into desire and desire into action, but it's becoming clear to me that I just don't care. I really thought I did. And maybe, in times of duress, I do. But overall, I don't. I don't know why, but I don't. I thank you all for your encouraging words as they are appreciated sincerely. But I won't be bitching about this anymore. It's just a waste of everyone's time and exposes more weakness on my part than I'm comfortable with - even online.

Again, I appreciate it, everyone.

Have you thought about this? Your brain tells you to quit but you don't so your body is telling you to quit.

My body tells me to ask my hot client to have dinner with me. My body is a moron. I can't trust a thing he says. Tongue

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12-09-2014, 06:33 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(12-09-2014 12:54 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 10:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  This is a perfect example of how you talk yourself out of it being serious. But in fact it's very serious. That's why you can't do this alone and really need to get some help with it. You may have relatively minor problems now (although I'm not sure I agree with that), but that won't last forever. It will get more serious. Much more. Why not take care of things now while the issues aren't irreversible?

Yes, you would. You might not realize that you care if that time came - because that would be the alcoholism clouding your brain - but yes, you would care.

It's worth noting that I've been suicidal since before I began drinking. In fact I eventually picked up the bottle in the interest of slow, passive suicide.

Food for thought.

Then chew on this: get help or die. Your call.

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12-09-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(12-09-2014 12:54 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 10:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  This is a perfect example of how you talk yourself out of it being serious. But in fact it's very serious. That's why you can't do this alone and really need to get some help with it. You may have relatively minor problems now (although I'm not sure I agree with that), but that won't last forever. It will get more serious. Much more. Why not take care of things now while the issues aren't irreversible?

Yes, you would. You might not realize that you care if that time came - because that would be the alcoholism clouding your brain - but yes, you would care.

It's worth noting that I've been suicidal since before I began drinking. In fact I eventually picked up the bottle in the interest of slow, passive suicide.

Food for thought.
All the more evidence that you need to get some help. Just do it.

Look at this way, when you have a medical issue, you go to a doctor - you've mentioned that already in this thread. Well, this too IS a medical issue; one that concerns your brain. It's important to realize that, because otherwise you may start to feel like this is all some kind of failing on your part, but it's not! It may not seem like a medical issue because it's too easy to say "I should be able to control myself" or "I don't really want to quit, so why bother" or other similar things. But that's just your brain messing with you due to whatever is physically going on with it. If you've been feeling suicidal, then there is also an element of depression involved. At the very least, there are medicines that can help. But I think the best approach will likely be a combination of medication, counseling, and support from family and friends. That's my best guess, but a proper evaluation would be more precise.

If you're still hesitating about getting help, what's holding you back?

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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13-09-2014, 12:27 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(12-09-2014 06:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 12:54 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  It's worth noting that I've been suicidal since before I began drinking. In fact I eventually picked up the bottle in the interest of slow, passive suicide.

Food for thought.

Then chew on this: get help or die. Your call.

Well, when you put it like that... Consider

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13-09-2014, 01:18 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(12-09-2014 11:21 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 12:54 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  It's worth noting that I've been suicidal since before I began drinking. In fact I eventually picked up the bottle in the interest of slow, passive suicide.

Food for thought.

If you're still hesitating about getting help, what's holding you back?

A lot of things. Some of which I'm still trying to figure out.

It's easy enough to say "I just don't want to," but that fails to address the reason(s) why I don't want to. I know all of the reasons are based on emotion, so I don't claim to be rational about all of this. In the interest of helping myself sort through this, I might as well start making a list of reasons.

1) I like drinking. It's enjoyable. It tastes good and feels good. When there's a campfire in the Summer and all of my friends are there, I want to be drinking. When it's October and it's time to visit all the haunted house attractions, I want to be drinking. When I get together with friends at a restaurant, I want to be drinking. When I'm sitting outside on my patio/garden reading a good book, I want to be drinking. And when friends come over, I want them to be drinking too. I feel like everything's better with a drink, and I want everyone around me to feel as loose and care-free as I do.

2) It chases away the demons. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I want to die. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I lost a great shot at a life partner years ago because I was a christian and didn't want to disappoint God by being "unevenly yolked." When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I feel like I'm at an impasse in my life and can't seem to get the fuck out no matter how hard I try. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I've been fucked over by literally every woman I've ever loved when all I've ever wanted in life was to be able to trust someone. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that my ex fucked another guy while she was trying to decide between us. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that he apparently knew all about me, and yet I had no idea he existed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I can't fucking trust anyone I love, because I've got the drink, and the drink can't betray me. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that another one of my exes is now so unhappily married that she's attempted to wriggle back into my heart and bed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that literally all of the friends I grew up with are now getting married and/or having kids while I can't seem to forge a lasting connection with someone I love because one of us completely fucks it up. When I'm drunk, nothing matters to me anymore.

Some of my happiest, most content moments have been sitting in the middle of the chaotic and unrelenting shitstorm that is my life with a beer in hand and one leg draped over the other. Let her go pick up guys at the bar when she told me she just wasn't feeling up to hanging out that night. Let my parents brainwash their adopted son into believing that his big brother is bound for eternal damnation. Let the very apocalypse befall us. It doesn't matter when I'm too drunk to care.

3) I'm a better person when I'm drunk. When I'm sober, I can actually be a real asshole. Especially when my life is in a seemingly perpetual state of feculence and I don't give a shit who I piss off/hurt. Sometimes I just lash out for the sake of being spiteful.

When I'm drunk, though...all of that changes. I feel good; I feel happy, so I act accordingly. A friend of mine was impressed when I helped her 8-year-old daughter practice for her spelling test (which she aced, because I'm awesome) and then read her a bedtime story. I was wasted at the time. One night during a visit, I gave my little brother a lengthy talk about how he needs to appreciate the things in his life and stop getting upset over the most trivial of things. When I'm sober, my reaction to his uproars consists of me yelling until he runs away crying. This past July 4th, I was drunk enough to go out of my way to befriend the new neighbors and spend an awesome night with them. When I'm sober and feeling like shit, I walk a line between cold-hearted apathy and being an outright asshole. When I'm drunk, I'm everyone's best friend. Period. Even when I make the stupid mistake of trying to fuck someone's wife, I'm nothing but friendly and trying to make peace while he tries to kick my ass. My own mother (with whom I have a very tense relationship) told me I can be at the house all I want...as long as I've been drinking. She likes me better when I'm drinking, and so do I.


I had a few more, but they seemed stupid. Not that these aren't. The rest, I'm still trying to figure out.

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13-09-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(13-09-2014 01:18 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 11:21 AM)Impulse Wrote:  If you're still hesitating about getting help, what's holding you back?

A lot of things. Some of which I'm still trying to figure out.

It's easy enough to say "I just don't want to," but that fails to address the reason(s) why I don't want to. I know all of the reasons are based on emotion, so I don't claim to be rational about all of this. In the interest of helping myself sort through this, I might as well start making a list of reasons.

1) I like drinking. It's enjoyable. It tastes good and feels good. When there's a campfire in the Summer and all of my friends are there, I want to be drinking. When it's October and it's time to visit all the haunted house attractions, I want to be drinking. When I get together with friends at a restaurant, I want to be drinking. When I'm sitting outside on my patio/garden reading a good book, I want to be drinking. And when friends come over, I want them to be drinking too. I feel like everything's better with a drink, and I want everyone around me to feel as loose and care-free as I do.

Well, duh. You're a fuckin' alcoholic and that's what they all say.

Quote:2) It chases away the demons. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I want to die. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I lost a great shot at a life partner years ago because I was a christian and didn't want to disappoint God by being "unevenly yolked." When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I feel like I'm at an impasse in my life and can't seem to get the fuck out no matter how hard I try. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I've been fucked over by literally every woman I've ever loved when all I've ever wanted in life was to be able to trust someone. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that my ex fucked another guy while she was trying to decide between us. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that he apparently knew all about me, and yet I had no idea he existed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I can't fucking trust anyone I love, because I've got the drink, and the drink can't betray me. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that another one of my exes is now so unhappily married that she's attempted to wriggle back into my heart and bed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that literally all of the friends I grew up with are now getting married and/or having kids while I can't seem to forge a lasting connection with someone I love because one of us completely fucks it up. When I'm drunk, nothing matters to me anymore.

Great, you need to stay drunk 24/7. Except you can't. No one can.

Quote:Some of my happiest, most content moments have been sitting in the middle of the chaotic and unrelenting shitstorm that is my life with a beer in hand and one leg draped over the other. Let her go pick up guys at the bar when she told me she just wasn't feeling up to hanging out that night. Let my parents brainwash their adopted son into believing that his big brother is bound for eternal damnation. Let the very apocalypse befall us. It doesn't matter when I'm too drunk to care.

Exactly - nothing matters when you're drunk. Except nothing changes when you're drunk, except for the worse.

Quote:3) I'm a better person when I'm drunk. When I'm sober, I can actually be a real asshole. Especially when my life is in a seemingly perpetual state of feculence and I don't give a shit who I piss off/hurt. Sometimes I just lash out for the sake of being spiteful.

You have no idea what you'd be like sober. Just because you're not drunk it doesn't mean you're sober. Your mind is still fucked.

Quote:When I'm drunk, though...all of that changes. I feel good; I feel happy, so I act accordingly. A friend of mine was impressed when I helped her 8-year-old daughter practice for her spelling test (which she aced, because I'm awesome) and then read her a bedtime story. I was wasted at the time. One night during a visit, I gave my little brother a lengthy talk about how he needs to appreciate the things in his life and stop getting upset over the most trivial of things. When I'm sober, my reaction to his uproars consists of me yelling until he runs away crying. This past July 4th, I was drunk enough to go out of my way to befriend the new neighbors and spend an awesome night with them. When I'm sober and feeling like shit, I walk a line between cold-hearted apathy and being an outright asshole. When I'm drunk, I'm everyone's best friend. Period. Even when I make the stupid mistake of trying to fuck someone's wife, I'm nothing but friendly and trying to make peace while he tries to kick my ass. My own mother (with whom I have a very tense relationship) told me I can be at the house all I want...as long as I've been drinking. She likes me better when I'm drinking, and so do I.


I had a few more, but they seemed stupid. Not that these aren't. The rest, I'm still trying to figure out.

Nice mix of denial, self-justification, and selective memory there, Mis. Thumbsup

There is nothing special here - I could have written that 25 years ago.

Get sober or die.

Pro tip: You don't know what sober is.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-09-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
Chas has got the right of it. I'm starting to realize that every little excuse and allowance we make to keep drinking is nothing but the alcoholism fighting to survive. It's not me, it's not you, it's the alcoholism, and it's one tricky manipulative evil fucking bastard.

I'm starting over, or trying to.

Everything you've said about continuing to drink... Toss it out the window. It's the alcoholism talking.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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15-09-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Addiction and Health: Stopping the Madness
(13-09-2014 01:18 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 11:21 AM)Impulse Wrote:  If you're still hesitating about getting help, what's holding you back?

A lot of things. Some of which I'm still trying to figure out.

It's easy enough to say "I just don't want to," but that fails to address the reason(s) why I don't want to. I know all of the reasons are based on emotion, so I don't claim to be rational about all of this. In the interest of helping myself sort through this, I might as well start making a list of reasons.

1) I like drinking. It's enjoyable. It tastes good and feels good. When there's a campfire in the Summer and all of my friends are there, I want to be drinking. When it's October and it's time to visit all the haunted house attractions, I want to be drinking. When I get together with friends at a restaurant, I want to be drinking. When I'm sitting outside on my patio/garden reading a good book, I want to be drinking. And when friends come over, I want them to be drinking too. I feel like everything's better with a drink, and I want everyone around me to feel as loose and care-free as I do.

2) It chases away the demons. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I want to die. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I lost a great shot at a life partner years ago because I was a christian and didn't want to disappoint God by being "unevenly yolked." When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I feel like I'm at an impasse in my life and can't seem to get the fuck out no matter how hard I try. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I've been fucked over by literally every woman I've ever loved when all I've ever wanted in life was to be able to trust someone. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that my ex fucked another guy while she was trying to decide between us. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that he apparently knew all about me, and yet I had no idea he existed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that I can't fucking trust anyone I love, because I've got the drink, and the drink can't betray me. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that another one of my exes is now so unhappily married that she's attempted to wriggle back into my heart and bed. When I'm drunk, it doesn't matter that literally all of the friends I grew up with are now getting married and/or having kids while I can't seem to forge a lasting connection with someone I love because one of us completely fucks it up. When I'm drunk, nothing matters to me anymore.

Some of my happiest, most content moments have been sitting in the middle of the chaotic and unrelenting shitstorm that is my life with a beer in hand and one leg draped over the other. Let her go pick up guys at the bar when she told me she just wasn't feeling up to hanging out that night. Let my parents brainwash their adopted son into believing that his big brother is bound for eternal damnation. Let the very apocalypse befall us. It doesn't matter when I'm too drunk to care.

3) I'm a better person when I'm drunk. When I'm sober, I can actually be a real asshole. Especially when my life is in a seemingly perpetual state of feculence and I don't give a shit who I piss off/hurt. Sometimes I just lash out for the sake of being spiteful.

When I'm drunk, though...all of that changes. I feel good; I feel happy, so I act accordingly. A friend of mine was impressed when I helped her 8-year-old daughter practice for her spelling test (which she aced, because I'm awesome) and then read her a bedtime story. I was wasted at the time. One night during a visit, I gave my little brother a lengthy talk about how he needs to appreciate the things in his life and stop getting upset over the most trivial of things. When I'm sober, my reaction to his uproars consists of me yelling until he runs away crying. This past July 4th, I was drunk enough to go out of my way to befriend the new neighbors and spend an awesome night with them. When I'm sober and feeling like shit, I walk a line between cold-hearted apathy and being an outright asshole. When I'm drunk, I'm everyone's best friend. Period. Even when I make the stupid mistake of trying to fuck someone's wife, I'm nothing but friendly and trying to make peace while he tries to kick my ass. My own mother (with whom I have a very tense relationship) told me I can be at the house all I want...as long as I've been drinking. She likes me better when I'm drinking, and so do I.


I had a few more, but they seemed stupid. Not that these aren't. The rest, I'm still trying to figure out.
So in all of that I didn't really hear an answer to my question about what's holding you back from getting help unless you are saying that you are content in your drinking and therefore don't want to change or get help.

But I did hear a lot of other stuff. From what I'm hearing you have a lot of issues going on largely related to relationships with women as well as a generally depressed mood. The latter might be largely caused by the former and I would guess there are a lot of other things that factor in too. I obviously have limited information so consider my opinion in that context. Drinking helps to elevate your mood and so it seems to help everything out. Therefore, you think why give it up?

First, as Chas pointed out, nothing changes with alcohol; at least nothing for the better. It's a temporary "feel good" that lasts only as long as the effectiveness of the drinks and then you have to drink more to keep it going. Meanwhile, the problems don't go away.

Second, alcohol actually depresses your mood. Therefore, it's circular. Depression leads to drinking which leads to depression which leads to drinking which leads to... And it all ends in serious health problems and eventually death.

Third, there are far better ways to get over depression and far better ways to address problems like relationship issues or anything else that exists in your life that is dragging down your spirits. You need help to find the better ways that are right for you and your specific circumstances.

Fourth, alcoholism clouds your brain both while you drink and in between drinks. It is very difficult to see your own situation objectively and accurately. It's extremely easy to resist giving up the drinking and extremely easy to find reasons to justify not giving it up. That's why involving other people is vitally important. You can't accurately assess your own situation. Every time you tell yourself you are better off drinking, you are quite frankly wrong, but it's understandable why you think you are right - it's because the alcoholism clouds your brain. You need other people to help you see things the way they really are. Those other people include friends and family as well as professional help. All those things that seem to be out of reach when you're not drinking and seem to get better when you are drinking can ALL get better without the drinking. You just need help to get it all sorted out.

Finally, this is sheer speculation on my part, but it's something I have observed in many people I know. It seems to me that when people drink and they behave differently than they usually do, it's because they begin to show what's more truly themselves than they ordinarily do. Some become happier, others meaner, others less inhibited, etc. If I'm right about this, then the happiness that you show when drinking, the kind actions like helping your friend's daughter with her spelling test and the concerned discussion with your brother, and the friendliness with the new neighbors are all the real you. You can certainly be those things too without the alcohol because those are really you. With help, you can put all the baggage aside and be that person without the alcohol. And you'll still have your health too.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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