Addiction
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03-06-2015, 03:11 PM
RE: Addiction
(02-06-2015 08:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 07:27 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Seems more like another defect in our bodies rather than a sign of perfect creation.

Please cite the verse where we are a perfect creation.
(02-06-2015 09:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Oh, and please cite.

Still waiting on that.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." - Genesis 1:27 (KJV)

Was this supposed to be a hard question?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2015, 03:25 PM
RE: Addiction
(02-06-2015 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 10:04 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  You explained everything sir. (I missed your other post first time around) I just thought a perfect god would have created us with less inherent faults. If that was his intention then so be it.

Logically speaking, that doesn't make sense.

Why would perfection create perfection?

Moreover, perfection wouldn't/couldn't serve the purpose of humanity.



Also, not trying to pick on you... I asked you to cite your claims because it's often that non-theists make statements that are wholly untrue about theism. They're simple assumptions that have been accepted.

But... when pressed, it's hard to produce the actual claim being made.

Just sayin'

It's important to research a theological claim and have citations ready if you are going to be debate that area of theism.

Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Also, was death and suffering the result of the fall? Or did it exist before the fall?

Also, why wouldn't god make a perfect creation?

How does cancer serve humanity?

Huh

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-06-2015, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 03:32 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Addiction
(03-06-2015 03:25 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Also, why wouldn't god make a perfect creation?

'Cause he ain't perfect. Duh.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Addiction
(03-06-2015 03:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 08:46 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Please cite the verse where we are a perfect creation.
(02-06-2015 09:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Oh, and please cite.

Still waiting on that.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." - Genesis 1:27 (KJV)

Was this supposed to be a hard question?

So, this is a perfect re-creation of a human? You know... it could live, breathe, eat, sleep, poop, procreate, etc.?

-_-

C'mon, Bob.

Hebrew word for image that is used in the text. Tell me how you get "perfect" out of that?

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03-06-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: Addiction
(03-06-2015 03:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 03:25 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Also, why wouldn't god make a perfect creation?

'Cause he ain't perfect.

As Epicurus would say -Then why call him god?

Damn, we answered that question real quick. Big Grin

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-06-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: Addiction
(03-06-2015 03:25 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Logically speaking, that doesn't make sense.

Why would perfection create perfection?

Moreover, perfection wouldn't/couldn't serve the purpose of humanity.



Also, not trying to pick on you... I asked you to cite your claims because it's often that non-theists make statements that are wholly untrue about theism. They're simple assumptions that have been accepted.

But... when pressed, it's hard to produce the actual claim being made.

Just sayin'

It's important to research a theological claim and have citations ready if you are going to be debate that area of theism.

Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Also, was death and suffering the result of the fall? Or did it exist before the fall?

Also, why wouldn't god make a perfect creation?

How does cancer serve humanity?

Huh

It depends on whether you are a young-earther or an old-earther. I know old earth creationists who would say death and suffering existed before the Fall. Young earth creationists would say it existed after the Fall (that would be the literal interpretation).

When I asked my pastor (back when I was Christian) why there was disease, suffering, and so on, he told me it was a result of sin. God didn't want robots--so He gave humans the option of obeying or disobeying. They disobeyed and with that came the consequence of sin entering the world. Cancer doesn't serve humanity--it is the result of sin (according to some Christians).
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03-06-2015, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 04:00 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Addiction
(03-06-2015 03:30 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 03:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." - Genesis 1:27 (KJV)

Was this supposed to be a hard question?

So, this is a perfect re-creation of a human? You know... it could live, breathe, eat, sleep, poop, procreate, etc.?

-_-

C'mon, Bob.

Hebrew word for image that is used in the text. Tell me how you get "perfect" out of that?

Dunno what you were taught in Calvinist class but in Lutheran class we was taught we was created perfect in the image of God and remained perfect until some shifty shit went down later in some back alley in the 'hood involving a serpent and fruit. I remember being 10 yo and asking Ms. Spicer why since we were God then why they called it "The Fall of Man" instead of "The Fall of God and The Rise of Man". I got detention. Never did get an answer.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: Addiction
(02-06-2015 12:59 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 12:36 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Not sure meth and heroin fit into that category.

Heroin is a painkiller and was developed as a medicine. While probably not good recreationally it is still good. And regarding meth, according to cracked, the most common user of methamphetamines are single parent mothers who are working two jobs type people. They use meth as a stimulant in order to complete their day. Kinda a more extreme version of caffeine.

Hmm I'd be interested in a link to that. Maybe amphetamines (ADHD medication) would be frequently used as a energy stimulant for single moms, but meth, I would venture to guess is a whole different animal. After a decade in corrections I dealt with a lot of meth abusers and single working moms weren't in the mix often.
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03-06-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Addiction
(02-06-2015 10:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Why would perfection create perfection?

How could it not and still be perfect?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Addiction
(02-06-2015 08:45 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Because God created sin and created humanity with a corrupted nature. If He didn't, then we would be perfect, which is something only God can be.

(this theist's explanation anyway)

I don't understand how a real addiction is a sin or can be considered a sin. Perhaps the usage of a potentially addictive substance is questionable with regard to making good or bad decisions. Some people are more prone to addictions than others.

I just don't think many people set out to become addicted to anything from coffee to meth.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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