Adrenal Response and YEC
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27-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Adrenal Response and YEC
I found myself wondering recently how those who believe in the literal Genesis story for the special creation of man account for adrenal responses to thing like fear and danger. If we were created in a perfect paradise, free of death and danger, why would it be necessary for this sort of complex chemical pathway to exist in the first place? Why would we have a "flight or fight" response if there was no need to engage in either of those?

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27-07-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
(27-07-2012 05:12 PM)Pavlovs_Ape Wrote:  I found myself wondering recently how those who believe in the literal Genesis story for the special creation of man account for adrenal responses to thing like fear and danger. If we were created in a perfect paradise, free of death and danger, why would it be necessary for this sort of complex chemical pathway to exist in the first place? Why would we have a "flight or fight" response if there was no need to engage in either of those?

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(Interesting....maybe go post this on the apologetics thread..he can ask the apologists to justify this).

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27-07-2012, 05:37 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
Eh, whatever. All the good rock n roll will be in hell anyways. And all the good country, for that matter. And metal. Is there any music in heaven besides shitty harps and choirs?

I wasn't sure where to post this. I don't think any serious apologists are YEC anyways, are they? No YEC will listen to logical argument or they wouldn't be one. I just haven't really heard this one before, and thought I my have found a novel way to smack that dead horse.

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28-07-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
Primitive evolved limbic responses.
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28-07-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
(28-07-2012 10:12 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Primitive evolved limbic responses.

Well obviously. But the question was framed outside of the context of human evolution, so answering it with evolution doesn't really get us anywhere.

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28-07-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
Your question assumes that the "fight or flight" response isn't useful for anything anymore, and I just don't agree with that assumption. You aren't necessarily wrong, but nonetheless we do sometimes run into danger in the modern world. You're probably sitting on a comfortable couch in front of a computer where you have little chance of running across a predator, but such predators still exist in Africa, where people do live without such comfort or natural protection. For most of us in modern first-world countries it's a nuisance, but one could argue that in earlier civilizations (and modern-day Africa) it was more useful.

This line of questioning just isn't very useful for disproving YEC. We have plenty of vestigial responses such as goosebumps, and these things have never swayed a single fundamentalist... even if there isn't a use, they'll make one up.

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28-07-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
(28-07-2012 03:39 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Your question assumes that the "fight or flight" response isn't useful for anything anymore, and I just don't agree with that assumption. You aren't necessarily wrong, but nonetheless we do sometimes run into danger in the modern world. You're probably sitting on a comfortable couch in front of a computer where you have little chance of running across a predator, but such predators still exist in Africa, where people do live without such comfort or natural protection. For most of us in modern first-world countries it's a nuisance, but one could argue that in earlier civilizations (and modern-day Africa) it was more useful.

This line of questioning just isn't very useful for disproving YEC. We have plenty of vestigial responses such as goosebumps, and these things have never swayed a single fundamentalist... even if there isn't a use, they'll make one up.

I think we may be on a different page here. I'm assuming that the biblical literalist believes in the story of Adam and Eve being created in the Garden of Eden, a perfect place free of death, fear, and danger, a perfect hippie utopia. If that was the intended state of existence before they rebelled against god, he wouldn't have created humans with natural response to those stimuli, as they never existed at the time of their creation. So, either that sort of adrenal response was given to man after "the fall" by god, or a complex chemical pathway managed to evolve really fucking fast once we weren't living in the Garden. Which would be just another case of fundies believe in super evolution whilst rejecting actual evolutionary theory. I don't think anyone could put forth an argument that would sway a fundie.

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28-07-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
I think the way they would explain it would be as a effect of the curse God gave them, to be fearful and shit like that.

Anyways, still total shit.

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28-07-2012, 04:54 PM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
I generally get further arguing with my cats.

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29-07-2012, 01:03 AM
RE: Adrenal Response and YEC
(28-07-2012 04:37 PM)Pavlovs_Ape Wrote:  
(28-07-2012 03:39 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Your question assumes that the "fight or flight" response isn't useful for anything anymore, and I just don't agree with that assumption. You aren't necessarily wrong, but nonetheless we do sometimes run into danger in the modern world. You're probably sitting on a comfortable couch in front of a computer where you have little chance of running across a predator, but such predators still exist in Africa, where people do live without such comfort or natural protection. For most of us in modern first-world countries it's a nuisance, but one could argue that in earlier civilizations (and modern-day Africa) it was more useful.

This line of questioning just isn't very useful for disproving YEC. We have plenty of vestigial responses such as goosebumps, and these things have never swayed a single fundamentalist... even if there isn't a use, they'll make one up.

I think we may be on a different page here. I'm assuming that the biblical literalist believes in the story of Adam and Eve being created in the Garden of Eden, a perfect place free of death, fear, and danger, a perfect hippie utopia. If that was the intended state of existence before they rebelled against god, he wouldn't have created humans with natural response to those stimuli, as they never existed at the time of their creation. So, either that sort of adrenal response was given to man after "the fall" by god, or a complex chemical pathway managed to evolve really fucking fast once we weren't living in the Garden. Which would be just another case of fundies believe in super evolution whilst rejecting actual evolutionary theory. I don't think anyone could put forth an argument that would sway a fundie.

That's true. I put some thought into my answer, but apparently not enough thought.

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