Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
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08-12-2011, 04:29 PM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(08-12-2011 01:28 AM)MasterRottweiler Wrote:  It is amazing how Christians still use the "that's the old testament" card.

It's all a song and dance. When people complain about the tune, apologists say that ain't my band. Tongue

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08-12-2011, 05:10 PM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(08-12-2011 01:35 AM)Organon Wrote:  Jesus was long dead (if he ever lived) before the Romans constructed their Christianity, so Jesus lived with the OT, preached the OT, breathed the OT.

He did live, preach, and breathe the OT... but he still ignored it whenever it served his purposes.

When accused of working on the Sabbath when he and his disciples ate grain, he replied "Didn't David eat the holy bread in the temple when he was starving?" This is an argument from authority, making the assumption that David couldn't do wrong, so if David did it, it must be good for Jesus, too. He also says "If your animal fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn't you rescue it?", which implies that it's not alright for the pharisees to accuse him because they could hypothetically be hypocrites by accusing him of a crime that they might hypothetically commit.

When he rescued the adulteress from the crowd that wanted to stone her, he said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", basically demanding that the whole crowd was full of hypocrites, because they wanted to punish someone when they themselves had done things to earn punishment. Seriously? I didn't realize that, if I was sent to jail for assault by a judge that had gotten a speeding ticket, I had grounds for appeal. Because that would be total hypocrisy, says Jesus the world-famous attorney. Lawyered!

But he never said "these laws aren't relevant anymore". Except when Jesus told people that they shouldn't seek divorces. The pharisees said "but Moses said we could get divorced", and Jesus said "Yeah, but he had stupid reasons for allowing that. And I guess I had stupid reasons for letting that end up in the bible." I'm paraphrasing a bit, but Jesus had no problem with editing the Old Testament on the whim. Maybe that's why Christians do that now.

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08-12-2011, 05:28 PM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
Quote:But you mention all these acts of violence and injustice from the Bible but that all belongs to the OLD testament, when Jesus wasn't around yet. The main reason that Jesus came to the Earth was to show his heavenly father how hard it was for this children to live a life of goodness, with all those nasty temptations going around. So, when Jesus died, God understood a lot of things and since then they were considered a sin, like for instance killing people in the name of God (including children) or have more than one wife, or give your virgin daughters as an offer to a whole town to keep angels undercover.

As a Christian, this makes me rage... this is the most convoluted, apologetic piece of theology I've seen in a long time.

1) God the Father is Jesus the Son. They don't have to explain anything to each other.
2) I'm pretty sure an omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent God knows EXACTLY how hard it is to not sin. Especially, since He created humans with a fallen nature and made it impossible to NOT sin.
3) Jesus' death didn't explain anything to God. God's purpose for Jesus was for Him to die. It wasn't like God said, "Oh crap, the Kid died... oh wait, duh... now I get it. rofl @ what I've been doing all these years. Oh man. WOW. Really screwed that one up. Sorry brah."
4) God's nature never changes. God does not change. God does some questionable acts according to human morality; however, the purposes are His own and exists because of His will and plan.

You can hate on my Calvinistic views all you want, but at least I don't stick my head in the sand and do theological gymnastics to somehow explain things I don't agree with. IMO, I'm pretty consistent, and it's embarrassing when you have goofballs who say/type things like this.

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08-12-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(08-12-2011 05:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:Blah, blah, blah

As a Christian, this makes me rage... this is the most convoluted, apologetic piece of theology I've seen in a long time.

According to your convoluted, inhuman version of Christianity.

As an atheist, both of these make me rage. Or just shake my head in disbelief at the pot calling the kettle black.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-12-2011, 05:21 AM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(08-12-2011 05:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  2) I'm pretty sure an omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent God knows EXACTLY how hard it is to not sin. Especially, since He created humans with a fallen nature and made it impossible to NOT sin.

4) God's nature never changes. God does not change. God does some questionable acts according to human morality; however, the purposes are His own and exists because of His will and plan.

IMO, I'm pretty consistent, and it's embarrassing when you have goofballs who say/type things like this.

I agree that you're consistent Sad I just can't understand why you like a God like this or worship him. You say "God's a massive dick to everyone except me and a few others, he's basically toying with everyone, no noble human emotion like love is worth shit in the face of his will"... I just don't get it. What if your wife wasn't saved or chosen or elect? What if she has doubts later on? Wouldn't you be bothered that someone you love is gonna get tortured by this malevolent deity for absolutely no reason whatsoever?

Plus you're so certain that this is gonna happen. I mean, there's a bunch of guys who're pretty sure you're incorrect... I really hope (not proselytizing, just wishful thinking) that you'll figure out that it's all a big lie...
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09-12-2011, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 09:01 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(08-12-2011 08:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 05:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:Blah, blah, blah

As a Christian, this makes me rage... this is the most convoluted, apologetic piece of theology I've seen in a long time.

According to your convoluted, inhuman version of Christianity.

As an atheist, both of these make me rage. Or just shake my head in disbelief at the pot calling the kettle black.

Yes, my version of Christianity is inhuman because I believe humanity has no power over God. It may be a little bit of pot/kettle but only from a non-Christian point of view.

Ok Chas, let's set aside the known fact that you don't agree with me theologically. That's obvious. Now, to you, which is the lesser of two evils: me doing theological gymnastics and using apologetic to somehow explain God's actions, or calling a spade a spade and saying, "yeah, God does that"?

To you is it worse to be willfully ignorant or willfully unapologetic?
(09-12-2011 05:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 05:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  2) I'm pretty sure an omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent God knows EXACTLY how hard it is to not sin. Especially, since He created humans with a fallen nature and made it impossible to NOT sin.

4) God's nature never changes. God does not change. God does some questionable acts according to human morality; however, the purposes are His own and exists because of His will and plan.

IMO, I'm pretty consistent, and it's embarrassing when you have goofballs who say/type things like this.

I agree that you're consistent Sad I just can't understand why you like a God like this or worship him. You say "God's a massive dick to everyone except me and a few others, he's basically toying with everyone, no noble human emotion like love is worth shit in the face of his will"... I just don't get it. What if your wife wasn't saved or chosen or elect? What if she has doubts later on? Wouldn't you be bothered that someone you love is gonna get tortured by this malevolent deity for absolutely no reason whatsoever?

Plus you're so certain that this is gonna happen. I mean, there's a bunch of guys who're pretty sure you're incorrect... I really hope (not proselytizing, just wishful thinking) that you'll figure out that it's all a big lie...

1) I don't have a choice.
2) I am humbled that I was chosen by an almighty God.
3) It would emotionally destroy me, and I would be crushed; however, I would cling to God. The pain on earth is temporal, and when I get to heaven I won't know any pain that happened here.
4) It took a miracle for me to believe. It would take something stronger than God to make me an unbeliever.

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09-12-2011, 09:47 AM
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
(09-12-2011 08:57 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, my version of Christianity is inhuman because I believe humanity has no power over God. It may be a little bit of pot/kettle but only from a non-Christian point of view.

Ok Chas, let's set aside the known fact that you don't agree with me theologically. That's obvious. Now, to you, which is the lesser of two evils: me doing theological gymnastics and using apologetic to somehow explain God's actions, or calling a spade a spade and saying, "yeah, God does that"?

Neither is worse, they're both absurd.
To a thinking atheist, it is precisely the pot calling the kettle black.

It is amazing to observe duelling theological arguments - both sides are just making stuff up and basing their arguments on works of fiction.

Two things that are untrue for different reasons are still both untrue; one is not more or less untrue than the other.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-12-2011, 05:17 PM
 
RE: Advice on how to counteract a classic troll question
So did Mohammad, find me their bones, Jesus is a myth. On that basis, as the old testament is the opinion of god, that takes president over an alleged visitation, which we cannot even beyond hearsay, justify ever took place.
^My answer, at the very least it will piss them off and drive them wild. Tongue
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