Affirmative Action
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11-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Affirmative Action
So I'm bound to get some hate mail for this one, but let me start off by saying I am not a racist. I love and hate equally. Now on to the part that will get me into trouble.

I don't believe in Affirmative action, I think to put it bluntly it's bullshit.

I believe it was instilled to alleviate some of the unnecessary guilt that rich white politicians carry around due to their nefarious ancestry.

I have to say that I don't believe in the idea of guilt by relation or association. I shouldn't feel guilty for something I didn't do or have a part in. That's ridiculous. I have enough shit to feel guilty over that I myself have done or thought or said.
I also think that reparations are bullshit but that's another thing all together.
I don't personally understand the ideology of giving someone something based upon the color of their skin or ethnicity. It seems like the same problem but with shiny things on it. I don't believe in denying someone a job based upon any of those things but I also think it's pretty well the same thing to give them the job for those reasons. It should be entirely based off of skills and experience.

Another issue with Affirmative Action I have is that if you look back into any ethnic background you will find that someone has enslaved them or done some horrible atrocity to them. So why are we so selective with who gets the benefits? Is it time based? What? It's so oddly selective.

I am not against anyone getting ahead in life, just with handing out pass cards for something that was done to someone else by someone else.

What do you think?

P.S. please don't take offense to anything I have said, it's all personal opinion and not meant to offend. If anyone has a personal problem with anything I have said please feel free to address it via PM, or what have you.... gunshots on a dark wet street in the middle of nowhere, you know however....

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11-08-2011, 07:51 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
I believe in AA.. but in a different sort of way.

I think we should concentrate on helping disadvantaged youths get into colleges and work programs over their well-to-do counterparts. Now I'm not saying that we should ban all middle-upper class kids from college, it's just that these kids need more of a leg up in life.

AA is not like HALF of the college MUST be this ethno/socio-economic group, but relatively small percentages.

If a disadvantaged student was selected over a well-to-do student, it's not the end of the world for that well-to-do student, but it may be that disadvantaged student's only hope of going to college.

But yeah, AA is generally made for disadvantaged folks...

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12-08-2011, 11:15 AM
RE: Affirmative Action
Affimative action was started at a time when there were many people who had been denies jobs or promotions because of their race. At first it meant that businesses who were actually guilty of discrimination were required to give preferential treatment to those individuals they had discriminated against. As long as this was the case it was a good thing because it meant that those who had wronged others were required to make reparations for the harm they had done.

The problem is that now the concept has changed so that people who haven't been guilty of discrimination are forced to give preferential treatment to people who have never been discriminated against. I agree that in its present form it is bad and should be ended.

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12-08-2011, 12:55 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
I'm all for ending AA when everyone in this country has equal access to education...

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12-08-2011, 04:58 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
Sorry to sound thick but what is affirmative action?

Is it an exclusively American phrase or have I just never heard of it (from England)? From some of the posts it kinda sounds like positive discrimination, are they the same thing?

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12-08-2011, 07:38 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
(12-08-2011 04:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Sorry to sound thick but what is affirmative action?

Is it an exclusively American phrase or have I just never heard of it (from England)? From some of the posts it kinda sounds like positive discrimination, are they the same thing?

I had no idea what it was either so looked it up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action
This covers the basics.
It seems to be seen as unlawfull in a several countries because "it does not treat all races equally". The only knowledge i have of affirmative action is from the wiki page and we all know they arn't always reliable.

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12-08-2011, 07:47 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
Sounds like positive discrimination which is something I am against.

I think that if a particular group is under-represented in a certain field then the way to combat this is to have initiatives to try to encourage people from that group to go into that field and investigations into why a particular group is so under-represented. I think to just appoint people from that particular group (be it males/females, blacks/whites, atheists/christians or any other group you can think of) based on their beliefs/gender/skin colour is just a sugar coated version of racism/sexism etc.

I know I'd be pretty pissed off if I applied for a job only to be told that although I was perfectly suitable and qualified for the job I wasn't going to be considered because I'm male.

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14-08-2011, 12:40 PM
RE: Affirmative Action
(11-08-2011 07:22 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I don't believe in Affirmative action, I think to put it bluntly it's bullshit.

I agree - but for a different reason.

Quote:I believe it was instilled to alleviate some of the unnecessary guilt that rich white politicians carry around due to their nefarious ancestry.

Naw - nothing to do with guilt. It was legislated so that "something was seen to be done"; to deflect legitimate anger and potential rebellion.
Letting a few exceptionally bright and potentially wealth-producing kids out of the ghettoes, so that the same privileged classes of rich and powerful white men could continue to reap the benefits of stomping on the same underclasses off Blacks, Hispanics, illegals and marginals.
Like the US armed forces making a big ta-ra out of airlifting a single injured Iraqi boy out of the city they themselves had bombed to ratshit.

Quote:P.S. please don't take offense to anything I have said, it's all personal opinion and not meant to offend.

ditto

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15-08-2011, 11:20 AM
RE: Affirmative Action
I am also against Affirmative Action. It's an attempt to fight discrimination using discrimination. A bad idea. I also think it backfires badly. Now when we see a minority or a woman in a position of responsibility we can't help but wonder if they are there because they deserve it or because of AA. After all, many would be tempted to think, if that person couldn't get a job in any way other than AA, it must mean they aren't very good at it. Confused

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15-08-2011, 11:38 AM
RE: Affirmative Action
I still don't understand why we try to teach tolerance. Shouldn't we be at a point where we teach acceptance and not to just tolerate something you dislike/disagree with?

On a side note I agree and disagree with AA. I agree with it in principle but disagree with how it is implemented. As a white male I find myself typically in good situations so I have never experienced blatant discrimination. The thing is that employers should be free to hire the best person for the job irregardless of race, religion, age or sex. In some cases they are forced to hire a candidate who is less qualified because of AA and in other cases discrimination means someone is passed over because of age, race, sex or religion. There is a reason why age and religion are not supposed to be legal to talk about in interviews so perhaps we should make all interviews a double blind process. You can't see the interviewer or the interviewee and even voices are altered so you can't tell if they are male of female. Perhaps then female salaries would level off with male salaries! Not a realistic solution but still.

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