Affluenza?
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14-12-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: Affluenza?
Anderson Cooper's interview with the psychologist who testified in the case, the one that diagnosed the kid with affluenza.




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14-12-2013, 12:16 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 09:27 AM)nach_in Wrote:  In the wikipedia article says that the rehab will cost $450K a year for 10 years, that's probably a good sentence for the parents. Not the kid though, he should go to prison.

Why should he go to prison? Just because that's the societal norm? Validate your argument.

As atheists, I think we can see the damage done by societal norms. Jail doesn't work to near the extent that rehab does.
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14-12-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 08:34 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So his parents have failed to instill in him an understanding of the consequences of his actions.

So now in light of the most consequential actions of his life thus far, we're going to continue this trend by not holding him responsible?

We all know that if he was a black kid and had just ran over 4 white people in a drunken stupor, he'd be in jail for 20 years in a heartbeat. If the kid isn't responsible, then the parents are. If they want to use that defense, then put the parent's in jail as accessories to manslaughter or negligent homicide. Let's see how much they really want to let him off the hook, let's see if they'll serve his time for him. But nope, they're going to spend a shitload of money on a shrink willing to make shit up on their behalf and a posh rehab program.

I hope that the victims and their families sue the shit out of the kid and his parents in a civil wrongful death suit. Bleed them dry of their money so they don't spread their 'affluenza' to any more children.

People continue making broad claims without any evidence to back it up. Find similar court cases if you want to make the claim. Gawd, some of you sound like a bunch of creationists, making claims without anything to back it up.

"If he was poor, if he was black, if, if, if."

If you make such a claim then find a similar case where a black/poor/etc 16 year old went to jail for running over white people while in a drunken stuppor. Also, since judges are far from objective, this case would need to have been put in front of the same judge.

Since the 16 year old was diagnosed with affluenza, which was attributed to his parents, then I see no reason why they cannot be tried in court for some of the crimes you listed. I guarantee you they will be sued, this is America after all.
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14-12-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 12:16 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(14-12-2013 09:27 AM)nach_in Wrote:  In the wikipedia article says that the rehab will cost $450K a year for 10 years, that's probably a good sentence for the parents. Not the kid though, he should go to prison.

Why should he go to prison? Just because that's the societal norm? Validate your argument.

As atheists, I think we can see the damage done by societal norms. Jail doesn't work to near the extent that rehab does.
Because we can't have people going around killing people. By your asinine logic nobody should go to prison ever.

If you can't provide rehab as an option for all then you don't make it an option for anybody. The rehab is not going to change him at all.

Tell me, if somebody came to your home, killed your parents and raped your sister and then claimed it's all because he came from a war torn country and thought his actions are the norm, and he didn't know any better. Would you be his defense witness in the trial, saying that he should go to yoga and mma classes ?

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14-12-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: Affluenza?
Jag,
I know you are playing devil's advocate here and we get your point.

Just in case you don't get the point that those you refer to 'emotional' are making, governance systems are expected to have three qualities: fairness, accountability and transparency.

This case seems to fail at all three hence the outrage.

I'd agree with your underlying observation though, that 'retribution' is not a good basis for a justice system.

:polishes pitchfork:

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14-12-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 12:29 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(14-12-2013 12:16 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  Why should he go to prison? Just because that's the societal norm? Validate your argument.

As atheists, I think we can see the damage done by societal norms. Jail doesn't work to near the extent that rehab does.
Because we can't have people going around killing people. By your asinine logic nobody should go to prison ever.

If you can't provide rehab as an option for all then you don't make it an option for anybody. The rehab is not going to change him at all.

Tell me, if somebody came to your home, killed your parents and raped your sister and then claimed it's all because he came from a war torn country and thought his actions are the norm, and he didn't know any better. Would you be his defense witness in the trial, saying that he should go to yoga and mma classes ?


Ahh, now you are making the speculation that rehab doesn't work! Aren't you just FULL of scientific knowledge. Darn that research that shows that it does work!

My asinine logic? You have me rolling in laughter! You say that since we can't provide rehab for everyone, we shouldn't provide it for anyone. Talk about asinine.

And then you try to make a correlation that has no correlation. Running over people when drunk =/= raping and murdering.

Ask better questions, and I'll be happy to answer.
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14-12-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: Affluenza?
.24 BAC at 16. Very impressive. Don't think Girly got to those levels until my mid-20's. Ain't no way that kid's gonna stay out of trouble for 10 years. He's gonna inevitably violate his probation and end up in jail anyway. And by invoking that defense, the only question to be resolved in a civil suit against the parents is the amount of the settlement. It may actually be the best outcome for the families of the victims. They're gonna eventually get justice when the kid violates his probation and they get to bankrupt the negligent parents.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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14-12-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 12:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Jag,
I know you are playing devil's advocate here and we get your point.

Just in case you don't get the point that those you refer to 'emotional' are making, governance systems are expected to have three qualities: fairness, accountability and transparency.

This case seems to fail at all three hence the outrage.

I'd agree with your underlying observation though, that 'retribution' is not a good basis for a justice system.

:polishes pitchfork:


You have a way with putting things more eloquently than I do and I appreciate that.

I am trying to figure out what would constitute fairness? Research shows that rehab has better results than jail time, so isn't it fair for rehab to be an option if it is fiscally possible? Providing rehab for every criminal isn't possible because then it could be argued that the huge costs of this would be unfair to the general tax-paying populace.

As for accountability, this hasn't entirely played out yet. This was a 16 year--a minor--the parents should also be tried to some extent. I know that in some states the parents are held accountable for criminal damages that their children may cause as minors.

I was just hoping that there would be more logically minded dialogue here. We bash theists for being illogical, but there is a lot of illogical text that has been put on this thread.

As a society that is more and more aware of human behavior, and becoming increasingly more technologically advanced, there has to be a better way of punishment than the broken jail system. There has to be a better way of rehabilitation. You can force a square peg through a round hole, but that peg isn't going to be square anymore.

I never advocated in the slightest that no one should go to jail. I advocated that we look at this case from a different angle. I advocated for people to validate their arguments on why he should go to jail.
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14-12-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 12:42 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(14-12-2013 12:29 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Because we can't have people going around killing people. By your asinine logic nobody should go to prison ever.

If you can't provide rehab as an option for all then you don't make it an option for anybody. The rehab is not going to change him at all.

Tell me, if somebody came to your home, killed your parents and raped your sister and then claimed it's all because he came from a war torn country and thought his actions are the norm, and he didn't know any better. Would you be his defense witness in the trial, saying that he should go to yoga and mma classes ?


Ahh, now you are making the speculation that rehab doesn't work! Aren't you just FULL of scientific knowledge. Darn that research that shows that it does work!

My asinine logic? You have me rolling in laughter! You say that since we can't provide rehab for everyone, we shouldn't provide it for anyone. Talk about asinine.

And then you try to make a correlation that has no correlation. Running over people when drunk =/= raping and murdering.

Ask better questions, and I'll be happy to answer.

I am saying that it is unjust that a rich kid gets an option to go to rehab but poor people don't.
An why do they don't correlate? It's a crime committed because of "disorder " brought on by previous life experiences.
They correlate perfectly, because it's not the question of what type of crime did one commit , but did he commit it because he doesn't know any better.
The murderer and the rapist could get better in rehab too, right?
So why send him to prison?

So, again , would you be willing to send a murderer of your family to rehab?

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14-12-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: Affluenza?
(14-12-2013 12:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  .24 BAC at 16. Very impressive. Don't think Girly got to those levels until my mid-20's. Ain't no way that kid's gonna stay out of trouble for 10 years. He's gonna inevitably violate his probation and end up in jail anyway. And by invoking that defense, the only question to be resolved in a civil suit against the parents is the amount of the settlement. It may actually be the best outcome for the families of the victims. They're gonna eventually get justice when the kid violates his probation and they get to bankrupt the negligent parents.

Look at it from the other angle. Since he was a minor, had he been sentenced to jail, he would have been eligible for parole in a couple of years, and then would have likely screwed up again and gotten back in jail. Recidivism rates are much lower with rehab than they are with jail time.

I am just disgruntled at people that say he needs to go to fail to 'get whats coming to him.' Would that make those dead people come back? Would that make you or I have a better life, knowing that this 16 year old got raped and beaten in prison?
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