After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
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19-09-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(18-09-2013 01:03 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-09-2013 06:59 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Here is the argument I'm making more or less in full:

A.1. God has the power and the foresight to recognise and be responsible for the suffering of his created beings prior to creating them
A.2. God created beings at a "time" that his power and foresight were available to him
A.3. Therefore, God is responsible for the suffering of his created beings.

B.1. God is responsible for the suffering of his created beings.
B.2. Some suffering is unnecessary. We can accept that God has some legitimate purposes that require some suffering, however the level of suffering in the universe especially in an old universe model exceeds the level required to achieve legitimate purposes.
B.3. Therefore, God is responsible for the unnecessary suffering of his created beings.

C.1. God is omnibenvolent.
C.2. God is responsible for the unnecessary suffering of his created beings.
C.3. As these premises are inconsistent with each other, one or both are false. If God exists he is not omnibenovelent. The Christian God is omnibenevolent, therefore the Christian God does not exist. Unless you are a Calvanist or similar that does not attribute omnibenovolence to their God.

This isn't an argument. It is the rendering of an opinion. It is essentially, "I think there is too much suffering in the world, therefore God can't be omnibenevolent".

You agree that some suffering is good, you just don't like the amount.

I don't want to get into a debate about the semantics of opinion vs argument, but suffice as to say it is an argument. Moreover, your counter argument is:
All suffering in this universe is necessary for the legitimate purposes God has for his creation.

All of it. All of that suffering is necessary. None could be lessened, not in the slightest. I love that God. I love him and his infinite goodness. I love... I love. I. Love the god of suffering.

Say it with me. I love the god of unnecessary suffering. I love the god of genocide. I love the god of tsunami and of earthquake and of flood. I love the god of miscarriage. I love the god of stillbirth. I love the god of childhood cancer. I love the god of accidental death. I love the god of horrible shrieking pain. I love the god of parasites. I love the god of billions of years of life and death and suffering and blood. I love the god who made this precious, wonderful universe. I love my own impending painful departure from that universe. I love the god of eternal infinite punishment for failing to believe the immoral and unbelievable. I love the god of eternal infinite "reward". I'll get that reward of eternal worship of that mad old god, because I love him. All his purposes were legitimate, and all suffering was necessary to his purposes. I believe that. I believe it. I just have to blink one more time and I'll believe it. I believe it. I believe it. I love him.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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