After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
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09-09-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(28-08-2013 08:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  http://htwins.net/scale2/

After viewing the scale of things, you begin to see just how small we are and how BIG the universe is.

There are stars who have diameters larger than the orbit of Neptune.
There are structures that you could drop our galaxy into and it would be like a needle in a haystack.
Large voids that contain no stars, no galaxies
And the length of what they think the size of the universe is 10^27 meters

I believe my name says it all Rahn127 (i am the universe)

Big Grin

I agree and have had the same thought before. There is no way any being could possibly be powerful enough to create the entire universe.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-09-2013, 04:45 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 04:33 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 08:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  http://htwins.net/scale2/

After viewing the scale of things, you begin to see just how small we are and how BIG the universe is.

There are stars who have diameters larger than the orbit of Neptune.
There are structures that you could drop our galaxy into and it would be like a needle in a haystack.
Large voids that contain no stars, no galaxies
And the length of what they think the size of the universe is 10^27 meters

I believe my name says it all Rahn127 (i am the universe)

Big Grin

I agree and have had the same thought before. There is no way any being could possibly be powerful enough to create the entire universe.
Respectfully, your statement is an error in thinking. A flea does not have the ability to comprehend a human beings ability to create a computer. That is the axiom you are arguing against.
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09-09-2013, 04:54 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe
(09-09-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Illogical, Captain. The universe is not on the order of infinite complexity. The next higher level need not be. LLAP.
I was attributing infinite complexity to God (unless you think god is limited and finite) not to the universe.
My point being, if an infinite amount of complexity needs no source, why does a smaller amount (our universe) require one? If the power and energy attributed to God can come from nothing (did not have a source), then, the relatively tiny spark of matter and energy that is our universe can also come from nothing. A creator is just an empty layer of non- explanatory fluff.
A creator is not necessary. Especially not a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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09-09-2013, 05:11 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 04:54 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Illogical, Captain. The universe is not on the order of infinite complexity. The next higher level need not be. LLAP.
I was attributing infinite complexity to God (unless you think god is limited and finite) not to the universe.
My point being, if an infinite amount of complexity needs no source, why does a smaller amount (our universe) require one? If the power and energy attributed to God can come from nothing (did not have a source), then, the relatively tiny spark of matter and energy that is our universe can also come from nothing. A creator is just an empty layer of non- explanatory fluff.
A creator is not necessary. Especially not a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity.
In all sincerity, a creator is one who creates. We all do it, and are not fluff even if we are unexplainable. It makes perfect sense that words would fall short.
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09-09-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
[quote='childeye' pid='375126' dateline='1378768287']
In all sincerity, a creator is one who creates. We all do it, and are not fluff even if we are unexplainable. It makes perfect sense that words would fall short.
[/ quote]
You missed the point. Either the complexity of time/space/energy/matter can come from nothing or it can't. If god came from nothing then why not the universe. We do not need an enigmatic unknowable entity to be a middleman. It's an unnecessary assumption. It is more intellectually honest to say "I don't know" when it comes to unanswered questions than to claim supernatural intervention.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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09-09-2013, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2013 06:45 PM by childeye.)
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 06:04 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  You missed the point.
Okay fair enough, then please explain it to me.
Quote: Either the complexity of time/space/energy/matter can come from nothing or it can't.
I agree this is a reasonable proposition.
Quote: If god came from nothing then why not the universe.
That would be reasonable except it is based on an if. It is a conclusion based on an assumption that God has a beginning, where whatever or Whoever God is came from nothing. Hence if God always has been and is eternal, then the conclusion is not accurate.
Quote:We do not need an enigmatic unknowable entity to be a middleman.
I don't comprehend what you mean by a middleman.
Quote:It's an unnecessary assumption.
It is assumed that the energy that created the universe came from somewhere just like the energy that powers our lights. To ask why does light appear from this bulb is to assume there is an answer.
Quote:It is more intellectually honest to say "I don't know" when it comes to unanswered questions than to claim supernatural intervention.
I agree honesty demands saying "I don't know" when one doesn't know. It is also honest to say "I know" when one knows. However the phrase "supernatural intervention" is not qualified. For one thing, a flashlight may be legitimately perceived as being supernatural in medieval times. Moreover, the term "intervention" would not ever apply to any True Creator since all that exists is His invention. If He intervened it would be intervening in what He already made, which is the only possible concept where the term would be accurate. But think of how much understanding is lost because the term "God" itself is either misunderstood or misapplied. If God is defined as superstition or the imaginings of men, then I don't believe in Him either. The God I believe in is Love and is not beyond my understanding since He made me able to understand the value of Love.
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09-09-2013, 08:33 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  The God I believe in is Love and is not beyond my understanding since He made me able to understand the value of Love.

Please explain how 'love' alone is capable of creating a universe... Drinking Beverage

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09-09-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
CE - For the last fucking time, love is an emotion that biological creatures, such as ourselves, have the ability to experience.
It is not a personality, nor alive in any sense of the word.
You are attributing personality traits and a disembodied mind to an emotion that humans can experience.
This is anthropomorphism and nothing more.

Emotions are NOT living beings
Living beings, in turn, cannot be emotions

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-09-2013, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 10:10 AM by NoSkyDaddy.)
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe
(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  That would be reasonable except it is based on an if. It is a conclusion based on an assumption that God has a beginning, where whatever or Whoever God is came from nothing. Hence if God always has been and is eternal, then the conclusion is not accurate.
It is based on apologist assertions that complexity cannot develop from nothing.


(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't comprehend what you mean by a middleman.
An extra layer of ambiguous, non-explanatory, enigmatic FLUFF. Asserting that god exists adds nothing to the explanatory power of any theory. It is just an extra layer of the unknown which does not fill any of the gaps in our knowledge.
It is doubly ridiculous when a personality or will is ascribed to it.

(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is assumed that the energy that created the universe came from somewhere just like the energy that powers our lights.
The origin of matter and energy is postulated from the observation and measurement of an expanding universe, not assumed.

(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  But think of how much understanding is lost because the term "God" itself is either misunderstood or misapplied. If God is defined as superstition or the imaginings of men, then I don't believe in Him either.
Give data that suggests otherwise.

(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  The God I believe in is Love and is not beyond my understanding since He made me able to understand the value of Love.
Love and all emotions are evolutionary characteristics of socially interdependent organisms. This development enhances group survival and encourages cooperative behavior, particularly with respect to care of offspring.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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11-09-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
Let the scale be the planck length on the small side, and the observable universe on the large size. On that scale a human being ends up being one of the larger things in the universe. It is simply wrong to say that after viewing the scale of the universe human beings are "specks" because in the scale of all observable things, we are quite substantial.

As side note, on that scale, life falls right in the center.
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