After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
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11-09-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 03:01 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 02:24 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Obviously, I meant "heavenly permanent dwelling". It says He CAME DOWN to Sinai. This is a silly response.

Is it, now?! Consider

Then why does the OT constantly link Yahweh to mountains? The "Lord's mountain"? Gen. 22:14, Isa. 30:29, 2 Chr. 33:15? Temple as "mountain"? Micah 4:2, Isa. 2:3?

Looks to me like Yahweh was a war god from the mountains, one of the multitude of them, and that the OT was tampered with after the ancient Hebrews embraced monotheism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMl...re=related

Um, because the whole OT prefigures Christ, who ordered an altar built on a mountain where sacrifice was made, who resided at times on a nearby mountain, was betrayed on another mountain, died on another mountain, ascended to Heaven from another mountain, spoke of two cities with 7 mountains each (Jerusalem and Rome) and warned people against their tendency to set up FALSE worship centers on mountains.

And it doesn't look like that to you. It looks like you saw a video and give it credence rather than doing the research. With some more verses, I can show you the OT god is a god of the seas, rivers, plains, threshing floors, temples, etc.
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11-09-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 03:49 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 02:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Yes, after reading about the 153 people Jesus healed in four gospels, I concluded you are right. The god of the NT IS impersonal.

What percent of the world's population was 153 people? Sounds like 'exclusive' is the correct word here.

You're right. Christianity and Judaism and the Ten Commandments, etc. have reached only a plurality of people, indicating perhaps that God is impersonal or that people are unconcerned.
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11-09-2013, 01:44 PM
After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 06:38 PM)childeye Wrote:  It is assumed that the energy that created the universe came from somewhere just like the energy that powers our lights.

CE - the person that you are right now. Where did that person come from ?
The person you are now didn't exist 10 years ago, so where did you come from ?

You had to come from somewhere right ? Were you created yesterday from some force outside of space & time ?

You grew into the person you are today. You came from simpler beginnings and if we trace back in time to the moment you were conceived we get a picture of how your body began to grow in this universe.

We know where babies come from and one day we will understand where universes come from.

It's difficult to put into words a process that doesn't apply to how we experience life.
We have a 3 dimensional view of a universe that may contain many dimensions that we would have a hard time understanding, in much the same way a 2 dimensional creature would have a hard time understanding a 3rd dimension.

You say the energy must have come from somewhere.
Where does the energy come from when a radioactive element decays ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-09-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(09-09-2013 04:54 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Illogical, Captain. The universe is not on the order of infinite complexity. The next higher level need not be. LLAP.
I was attributing infinite complexity to God (unless you think god is limited and finite) not to the universe.
My point being, if an infinite amount of complexity needs no source, why does a smaller amount (our universe) require one? If the power and energy attributed to God can come from nothing (did not have a source), then, the relatively tiny spark of matter and energy that is our universe can also come from nothing. A creator is just an empty layer of non- explanatory fluff.
A creator is not necessary. Especially not a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity.

I understand. My post stands. God needs to be of a higher order than the universe, not infinite in complexity, indeed, as Spirit, if He is closer to our understanding of quantum communications and materials, it's easy for Him to be omnipresent, etc. without being infinite.

But do you find Jesus also to be a "a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity?"
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11-09-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
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11-09-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe
(11-09-2013 01:44 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Where does the energy come from when a radioactive element decays ?

Maybe not the best example to try and make your point Rahn, as that one seems fairly well understood.

Wikipedia Wrote:Radioactive decay, also known as nuclear decay or radioactivity, is the process by which a nucleus of an unstable atom loses energy by emitting particles of ionizing radiation. A material that spontaneously emits this kind of radiation—which includes the emission of energetic alpha particles, beta particles, and gamma rays—is considered radioactive.

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11-09-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(11-09-2013 01:51 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The frequent atheist refutation to Pascal's wager includes "which of the many religions, then, should one choose?" Why not choose all of them and say god gave some measure of inspiration to each, even the fraudulent ones? After all, even Native American, Hindu and etc. religions have a chief deity or supreme being who created all. It's really you who are denying the great many answers to the questions, then.

Pascal's Wager is bunk, and only seems plausible to people accustomed to presupposition and terrible at statistics and probability.




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11-09-2013, 02:14 PM
 
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe...
(11-09-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Um, because the whole OT prefigures Christ,

No, it doesn't. The NT was written to make it look like the OT prefigures Christ. And that was done poorly, if I may add.

(11-09-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It looks like you saw a video and give it credence rather than doing the research.

False assumption.

(11-09-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  With some more verses, I can show you the OT god is a god of the seas, rivers, plains, threshing floors, temples, etc.

I'm still waiting for one verse from you, let alone "more."
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11-09-2013, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2013 05:51 PM by NoSkyDaddy.)
RE: After viewing the scale of the universe
(11-09-2013 01:46 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I understand. My post stands. God needs to be of a higher order than the universe, not infinite in complexity,...
My post stands. Infinite or not, if complexity requires a source, greater complexity requires a greater source. Saying god has no such requirement is special pleading fallacy. Also, you are trying to explain a greater phenomenon with less data.

(11-09-2013 01:46 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  ... indeed, as Spirit, if He is closer to our understanding of quantum communications and materials, it's easy for Him to be omnipresent, etc. without being infinite.
Who are you....Deepak Chopra? Laughat

(11-09-2013 01:46 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But do you find Jesus also to be a "a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity?"
Matthew 5:17-20 (ESV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:11Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me,

The Hebrews were commanded to rape, pillage, and massacre the neighboring tribes. Jesus (supposedly) is an earthly incarnation of YHWH, "a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity".
My post stands.Smile

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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11-09-2013, 03:02 PM
After viewing the scale of the universe, I find it impossible to believe a god exists
(11-09-2013 02:52 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  Matthew 5:17-20 (ESV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:11Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me,

The Hebrews were commanded to rape, pillage, and massacre the neighboring tribes. Jesus (supposedly) is an earthly incarnation of YHWH, "a genocidal, rape enabling, slavery condoning, murderous, blood thirsty, psychopathic, ethnocentric, bronze aged, desert dwelling, barbarian deity.
My post stands.Smile

You silly person.

You're not reading it in context; cognitive dissonance; the presence of the Holy Spirit; yeah, that's it...

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