Afterlife conundrum
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19-02-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
Perfection can't be imputed. If you like my post Q then I know it's bullshit. Thanks for the affirmation.

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19-02-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
I'm not seeing how it's not mocked or complained about. Maybe just not in that direct phrasing.

But the idea often mentioned about serial killer death bed conversions leading being in some denominations, infinitely forgiven and fit to be in heaven absurdity is of this same point.

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19-02-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I also have heard many theists rationalize the cruel injustices of this finite life by saying those who were savagely wronged will be rewarded in the afterlife. But what's more rewarding than eternal bliss? I mean, do these people believe there are degrees of bliss in heaven? Do some people have it better than others? Maybe some have wings while others have wheels on their feet?

I gotta tell ya, it would piss me off if I were gang-raped daily for 10 years, watched my family get murdered and then get killed myself in the most painful way possible only to arrive at the Pearly Gates to see some guy who had an easy "blessed" life getting the same treatment as me. This is why the whole afterlife concept falls apart as a reward. If there is any kind of mediocrity in heaven then why call it heaven? Yet we are told those who suffer here on Earth have it better there in heaven. And I have to admit I would be pissed if I led a good life and saw that others received a better heavenly experience for eternity.

Deeply rooted in my fundamentalist upbringing was the belief that there were several places of abode in the afterlife. I'll rank them as was / is presented:

The New City (New Jerusalem) - As mentioned in Rev. 21 - this was specifically reserved for the "bride" of Christ. Those people who had not only been saved but grown up (spiritually speaking) into the full stature of Jesus Christ. If you made it to this level you were pretty close to "Job" status.

The New Heaven - Also mentioned in Rev. 21 - This is reserved for people who were saved and well.....they were really good Christians...but not quite as good as those mentioned above.

The new Earth - Also mentioned in Rev. 21 - This is reserved for people who were saved and well....just kind of hung out the rest of their time on earth. They didn't really help the cause or perform any good works (more on this in a sec) sliding in by the skin of their teeth in reality (no pun intended)

The Lake of Fire - This is self explanatory. Not saved? Yep, you're burning forever!

Last and certainly not least - Outer darkness - This is reserved for people like me who knew this very Gnostic-like truth given by that church but chose to reject the validity it. This is much worse than hell. (Maybe because it's just dark and scary?)

The question was and is - who makes up the rules to determine where one spends eternity? Well God certainly doesn't seem to spell this out so it's all pretty nebulous. These multiple places of abode were also an attempt to harmonize the different views of salvation from antiquity, i.e. Paul's view of being saved by grace alone, not needing the law necessarily, and the gospel's views of being saved by works. (I don't think they ever figured out what to do with women since 1 Timothy said they could be saved through child-bearing if they continue through faith, love and holiness...oops).

Yet again another reason say, WTF? If the bible can't even agree (without gross harmonization) on what one needs to do to be saved, it's no wonder why The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated 43,000 denominations in 2012. But I digress....

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19-02-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
And I'd like to explore the angle of Satan punishing those sent to his humble abode. I just can't get past this making any kind of sense. Why would he make us miserable? Atheists are doing exactly as Satan told to Adam and Eve, learning the truth on our own. And anyone who did what the devil wanted them to do would not be punished. The devil defied god, he had it all in heaven and said this is bullshit and went to hell. Why would he do what god wants now? Maybe god controls hell too after all, which would just blow a huge hole through most worldviews, huh?

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23-02-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(19-02-2015 04:41 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  And I'd like to explore the angle of Satan punishing those sent to his humble abode. I just can't get past this making any kind of sense. Why would he make us miserable? Atheists are doing exactly as Satan told to Adam and Eve, learning the truth on our own. And anyone who did what the devil wanted them to do would not be punished. The devil defied god, he had it all in heaven and said this is bullshit and went to hell. Why would he do what god wants now? Maybe god controls hell too after all, which would just blow a huge hole through most worldviews, huh?

Satan's lures are meant mainly to 1) transfer worship away from Jesus 2) degrade people.

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23-02-2015, 02:26 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(23-02-2015 02:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 04:41 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  And I'd like to explore the angle of Satan punishing those sent to his humble abode. I just can't get past this making any kind of sense. Why would he make us miserable? Atheists are doing exactly as Satan told to Adam and Eve, learning the truth on our own. And anyone who did what the devil wanted them to do would not be punished. The devil defied god, he had it all in heaven and said this is bullshit and went to hell. Why would he do what god wants now? Maybe god controls hell too after all, which would just blow a huge hole through most worldviews, huh?

Satan's lures are meant mainly to 1) transfer worship away from Jesus 2) degrade people.

What did Satan do before Jesus was born? Pick on Job? Make bets with YHWH?

Your Sumerian-derived myth is silly.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-02-2015, 08:03 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(19-02-2015 03:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Would it be fair to receive infinite bliss for finite mediocre compliance?

No, it wouldn't. Correct. Correct. Correct!

So trust One who is perfect to have His perfection or "sinlessness" imputed.

Not sure why but I find this exuberance bordering on the giddy a tad disturbing. Feels like TMI.




#sigh
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24-02-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(23-02-2015 08:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 03:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, it wouldn't. Correct. Correct. Correct!

So trust One who is perfect to have His perfection or "sinlessness" imputed.

Not sure why but I find this exuberance bordering on the giddy a tad disturbing. Feels like TMI.




Gosh, I'm sorry. "Lord Jesus, my joy is too much information for this atheist, who obviously lacks same. Please tone down my exuberance and help me to discard the natural benefits of loving you, amen."

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24-02-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(23-02-2015 02:26 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(23-02-2015 02:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Satan's lures are meant mainly to 1) transfer worship away from Jesus 2) degrade people.

What did Satan do before Jesus was born? Pick on Job? Make bets with YHWH?

Your Sumerian-derived myth is silly.

What is the length of the Sumerian myth you are thinking of? It takes me quite a while to read every creation account in the scriptures...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-02-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(24-02-2015 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-02-2015 02:26 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  What did Satan do before Jesus was born? Pick on Job? Make bets with YHWH?

Your Sumerian-derived myth is silly.

What is the length of the Sumerian myth you are thinking of? It takes me quite a while to read every creation account in the scriptures...

It's become apparent to me, knowledge is something you care nothing about, you simply create your own version of whatever fantasy you want to believe by cherry-picking information to death. It will always point to your weird little Jesus-world no matter what.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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