Afterlife conundrum
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-03-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(29-03-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 03:37 PM)theophilus Wrote:  You are right about one thing. No one deserves Heaven. We have all sinned and deserve to be condemned to Hell.

The only reason it is possible for anyone to get to Heaven at all is that access to Heaven is not something we attain by what we do but is a free gift given by God to anyone who repents of his sins and puts his faith in Jesus. The reason Jesus died was to atone for our sins so we could enter Heaven.

Access to Heaven is a free gift but those who receive this gift will be rewarded for the work they have done while on earth.

Do you have any actual evidence for any of that? Consider

Quote:Everyone who puts his faith in Jesus will enter Heaven but not all who do so will be on the same level. Entrance to Heaven is a free gift available to everyone; the status of those who receive this gift will depend on the works they did and on how they live after their salvation.

'Free gift" depends on works. Right. Nice contradiction.

What's sad, Chas, is theophilus probably doesn't even understand your comment or the concept. It doesn't even compute.

I think it's absolutely despicable to buy in to the, as Hitchens used to say, "being born sick but ordered to be well" mentality.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2015, 12:05 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(29-03-2015 03:37 PM)theophilus Wrote:  No one deserves Heaven. We have all sinned and deserve to be condemned to Hell.
That is an unspeakably horrifying view of humanity.

No one -- And I do mean absolutely no sentient being, anywhere in all the universes that may exist -- "deserves" eternal punishment.

No exceptions. Ever.

And this "everyone deserves Hell" mindset is precisely why I shall never under any circumstances become a Christian.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Astreja's post
07-04-2015, 02:44 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(29-03-2015 03:37 PM)theophilus Wrote:  
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  But I've never heard or read anyone discussing the other side of this. Would it be fair to receive infinite bliss for finite mediocre compliance? Everyone could do better while they're alive. There's always something more you could have done. If being imperfect just once, like not believing in Jesus, could land you in the lake of fire for all of eternity, then shouldn't you have to be perfect to earn eternal happiness? And even that would be imbalanced.

You are right about one thing. No one deserves Heaven. We have all sinned and deserve to be condemned to Hell.

The only reason it is possible for anyone to get to Heaven at all is that access to Heaven is not something we attain by what we do but is a free gift given by God to anyone who repents of his sins and puts his faith in Jesus. The reason Jesus died was to atone for our sins so we could enter Heaven.

Access to Heaven is a free gift but those who receive this gift will be rewarded for the work they have done while on earth.

Quote:For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:11-15 ESV)

Everyone who puts his faith in Jesus will enter Heaven but not all who do so will be on the same level. Entrance to Heaven is a free gift available to everyone; the status of those who receive this gift will depend on the works they did and on how they live after their salvation.

"The reason Jesus died was to atone for our sins so we could enter Heaven."

Facepalm Read your babble. Jeebus died because he was a naughty boy. Jewish kings never lasted long in Jerusalem. If they weren't knocked off by the Romans there were plenty other power hungry Jews doing the killing. Them Jews were a rowdy mob.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
07-04-2015, 02:57 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I got to thinking today about afterlife. We (and by "we" I mean atheists) like to mock the concept of hell because the idea of a finite crime being punished with infinite torture is not only unjustified but it's laughably imbalanced.

But I've never heard or read anyone discussing the other side of this. Would it be fair to...
1. I don't know why people think the universe is (or ought to be) fair.
2. I don't know why people think a powerful god is interested in the activities of humans.
3. I don't know why people think a powerful god is obligated to reward the righteous and punish the immoral.

If I were a god, I'd have no interest in spending my time observing, judging and dishing out justice to humans. Sounds like a rather dull job.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stevil's post
07-04-2015, 03:01 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(07-04-2015 02:57 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I got to thinking today about afterlife. We (and by "we" I mean atheists) like to mock the concept of hell because the idea of a finite crime being punished with infinite torture is not only unjustified but it's laughably imbalanced.

But I've never heard or read anyone discussing the other side of this. Would it be fair to...
1. I don't know why people think the universe is fair.
2. I don't know why people think a powerful god is interested in the activities of humans.
3. I don't know why people think a powerful god is obligated to reward the righteous and punish the immoral.

If I were a god, I'd have no interest in spending my time observing, judging and dishing out justice to humans. Sounds like a rather dull job.

For the same reason that people will buy that a neigh immortal super-human would waste their time reliving high-school, otherwise known as the basic premise of Twilight.

People are gullible, anthropocentric, and desire understanding; even if it's incorrect, mistaken, or flat out wrong.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
07-04-2015, 03:04 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
It makes even less sense when consider that some of those who suffered the most in this life don't get to go to Heaven cause they chose the "wrong" religion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Fodder_From_The_Truth's post
07-04-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
(18-02-2015 12:40 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  But I've never heard or read anyone discussing the other side of this. Would it be fair to receive infinite bliss for finite mediocre compliance? Everyone could do better while they're alive. There's always something more you could have done. If being imperfect just once, like not believing in Jesus, could land you in the lake of fire for all of eternity, then shouldn't you have to be perfect to earn eternal happiness? And even that would be imbalanced.
...
An afterlife makes zero sense logically.

The reward is offered for acceptance of the message.
The reward is offered for belief in the message.
The reward is offered for credulity towards the message.
The reward is offered for gullibility towards the message.
The punishment is offered for incredulity. The punishment is offered for skepticism.

It isn't designed as a moral system. It is designed as a compliance system. Once you boil away the pretty-sounding words and get down to the essence of what is being offered here the design is clear:
1. We reward your participation with community
2. We reward your belief with a promise of eternal bliss
3. We monitor your belief with weekly meetings requiring active participation. We will see you wavering. We will take action, in love.
4. Your doubts are what send you to eternal punishment. Doubt is the enemy. Don't let it catch you. Don't let it get you. Don't let it drag you down there. Think of a way not to doubt. Think of a way to believe despite what you have seen. We love you. We accept you. You must accept this. Show us how you can get past these temporary doubts. Show us you can be one of us.

Bad people don't go to hell. Unbelievers go to hell. People whose beliefs correspond to evidence go to hell.
Good people don't go to heaven. Believers go to heaven. People whose beliefs correspond to community go to heaven.

It makes perfect sense logically. You are just thinking about it backwards. You think it is a system of morality. It is a system of mind control.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Hafnof's post
07-04-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Afterlife conundrum
I always wonder about those who supposedly go to heaven but their other family members didn't make it in. Are they happy in heaven even with the knowledge that their son didn't make it? Or grandma was really a bitch and resides in hell? Is their knowledge of everything erased like a sc-fi movie so they can enjoy the digs?

I can't imagine a greater hell than to live forever.

Aw shit, sometimes I wonder why I even contribute to a stupid thread about the stupid concept of an afterlife. It's not as if it's real. It's all a bunch of tripe.

When you die everything in your body rots from the brain to the toenails. There is no soul, it's just the brain firing neurons which dies when you die. People need to get over this heaven, hell crap and enjoy their life. Geesh!

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: