Afterlife.
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09-01-2012, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2012 11:28 PM by Chas.)
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 10:50 PM)Ghost Wrote:  ON EDIT: Chaz, you're being rude.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-01-2012, 11:33 PM
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 10:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not an atheist, but I play one on TV.

KC... are you sure you're not? You act like a natural. Good actors get inside the skin of those they portray, feel their emotions, think like them. Aren't you scared you'll get stuck as an atheist one day?
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09-01-2012, 11:48 PM
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 11:05 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(09-01-2012 09:40 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  I respect your opinion. To answer your question I am more than happy to worship and serve my Lord because without Him I would not exist. Life is too harsh for me to want to live if there were no God. He loved me enough to give His life for me and Now I am living for Him for all eternity. Whatever He asks of me I will try to do for as long as I have breath. I would gladly worship Him for all eternity if for no other reason than because I don't understand him. He is infinite and my mind is finite and even though I have a brain I can't wrap it around this Loving God.

My turn with the piñata stick

The line of reasoning that you possess can easily progress as follows.
Jesus Christ died for your sins so that you can go to heaven.
Because of this you owe your life to him and must follow his wishes completely
God says that heretics and homosexuals are abominations and must be put to death
So you must now follow your god’s command. You have no option.
Your opinion doesn’t matter in this. God will condemn you for not following his will.
You may be a nice person who wouldn’t hurt a fly, but this is not your call.

If you say that even if god commanded you to burn a heretic alive at the stake you would not do it, then you are either a liar or your faith is phony.
Are you really a Christian?
Will you follow god's law?
Answer the question truthfully from the heart.

Confused

Huh Thomas, Off thread and not trying to be too dickish, but your avatar with the upside down cross was actually originally meant as a symbol of humility towards jesus and is a symbol of "saint peter" who requested to be crucified upside down because he felt unworthy to be killed in the same manner as christ.

   

"I am a knowledgeable man, I have knowledge. If I knew how I knew what I know, I would know half as much, because it would be clogged up with where I knew it from...that is why I cannot always cite my sources. - David Mitchell
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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09-01-2012, 11:56 PM
RE: Afterlife.
The afterlife is indeed a wondrous place. Such however to me shall remain a fantasy. My ideal afterlife is not of eternal worship to a supreme deity, but more of a vast peaceful field where you relax, not bound by earthly worries. It is normal to yearn for a better world after death, as we live in these turbulent times. However, as a human living on the planet we call Earth, I have a duty, to make society a better place. To me, it is pointless chasing after a vague source of hope and comfort, instead of relying on our own ability to shape the future.

Meanwhile, enjoy your stay here Smile

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Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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10-01-2012, 12:05 AM
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 10:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-01-2012 09:46 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  Well said. For me the benefit for now is living my life for my Savior and trying to be all I can be for Him and telling everyone I know what He has done for me

Me too, brother, me too, It's just that I'm starting to think that the Savior is us.

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Poor Kid didn't know what can of worms he was opening.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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10-01-2012, 12:14 AM
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 08:56 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  As a Theist I believe there is an afterlife. What I am curious to find out is what motivates an Atheist to live their life and what they have to look forward to? If death is the end then why do we even have life? Seems pretty pointless. Open to all views. Please enlighten me.

What if I believe that we never really die. We never have an afterlife in heaven or hell. If at some point in this life, when we appear to die, our spirit moves to alternate universe where we didn't die and in that alternate universe, we grow younger until we reach a point where a natural death occurs and then we jump into another universe as a child of about the same age, moving forward again getting older repeating the process.

We would become immortal, living life after life after life and never having any true afterlife of the kind you expect to get in heaven.

My belief BLOCKS your access to heaven and doesn't require a god for any of it.

But to answer your initial question - What do people have to look forward to as they live ? I look forward to everything.

As a child I looked forward to playing with friends in the park, playing baseball, horseback riding, digging in the dirt.

As a teenager, I looked forward to driving, having my first kiss and swimming in the summer time.

As an adult, raising my son, I looked forward to giving him a life worth living.

As a grandfather, I look forward to seeing my grandson grow up and seeing the sparkle in his eyes as he learns to take his first step.

Do you live your life looking forward to the day you die and can then BEGIN your afterlife ? If you do, I pity you, for you are truly missing out on the gift of LIFE.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-01-2012, 08:12 AM
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 11:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-01-2012 10:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not an atheist, but I play one on TV.

KC... are you sure you're not? You act like a natural. Good actors get inside the skin of those they portray, feel their emotions, think like them. Aren't you scared you'll get stuck as an atheist one day?

haha

I was a thespian for years. But no, in order to better my defense, I have to know my opponent. I'm thinking I would make a great double agent.

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10-01-2012, 10:01 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 11:30 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Afterlife.
(09-01-2012 10:32 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  We have to have faith where there is no evidence. My evidence is my faith and the fact that I am still here is what I believe on. There is something in the back of my mind that argues away God but it doesn't last. Many questions I have would go unanswered. For one, why do people live life in all its cruelty if there is no point to it? I would have checked out by now if I felt there was no purpose. And Miracles in my own life are most of my evidence. I was in a terrible car accident where I flipped the car multiple times and took out a fence and a tree and it should have killed me but did not. I just knew I was going to die but then all of a sudden I knew I wasn't going to die. I obviously did not and all I can use to explain that away is God spared me for some reason. No one knows what that may be and it frustrates me but I nonetheless believe it. Can you tell me why I am still here if not for God?

Ok kiddo, my turn. I'll try to be nice. I generally walk away from this level of discussion, but the "savior" comment caught my eye .... I assume you're here because at some level, you really want to learn, and are questioning things.
So here are some questions for you to think about.

1. Why do you HAVE to have "faith" where there is no evidence ? Did someone tell you that ? Did you decide that ? Did you read that it was a better thing to do that than NOT do that ? Why is THAT your value, as opposed to other values ? How exactly did you come to that position. (BTW, ONE anecdotal experience of YOUR good luck, is hardly a sufficiently large statistical sample to make a generization from......what about the two year old down the block that gets killed by a car, accidentally...would THAT be proof for you that there IS no god ?) What about the 4 year old who is dying of Leukemia ? Should he conclude there is no god ? Please tell us more about "life in all it's cruelty". We can deal with that after we get some more information.

2. What do you know, (or think you know), ie from your study of biology, and neuro-chemistry etc, about what is "going on in the back of your head" ? Please tell us a little more about what you mean by that statement, and your background in science.

3. Third, who told you that Jesus was your "savior" ? Please explain to us why you think you "need" one of those, and tell us where you got that concept from. How much biblical history and form criticism have you had ? Did you know that the concept of a "savior" did not appear in the the Synoptic Gospels ? Do you know what that means ? Did you know the "salvation" paradigm first appeared in the Pauline letters ? How much do you know about the the sources and texts of the bible ? How much philosophy have you read ?

4. Where did you get the idea of an "after" life ? Do you know where THAT developed from ? Did you know that physicists postulate that the 4 dimensions of space-time, as we know them, exist ONLY in THIS universe ? We have no clue what exists apart from this universe, but all theologians agree heaven and hell are NOT physical "places" inside THIS universe. They would be "spiritual states of being". (I'll spare you right now the problems with THAT..since "being" requires "time", (see below)), but if they are OUTSIDE this universe, then you can't assume the SAME 4 dimensions, (and maybe the others we don't know about yet), exist outside THIS universe. If that is the case, there is no reason to assume that the dimension of "time" exists outside this universe. That means there is no "before", and no "after", and NOTHING else, and NO other concept, which requires time, to exist, can be postualted, until time is established. An "after" life requires time. Before you can assert there is one, (an "after-anything), you have to be able to assert, (or prove) the existence of time. It's tough. It's "non-intuitive", just like Relativity, and Quantum Uncertainty. But we KNOW it's not safe to assume everything IS intuitive.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-01-2012, 10:36 AM
 
RE: Afterlife.
The whole notion of the afterworld (insert Lets Go Crazy Prince song) cheapens this life big time.

I have heard some Fundie Repub pals of mine basically tell me that Global warming is junk, and if it is true..who cares, Jesus will clean this up and we are going to a better place. (not word for word but the gist of their statement)

To me spending your time wishing and hoping for tomorrow is a huge waste of today.

We have NOW. Make it ALL it can be.

Life is what happens when you are making plans!

To answer the true spirit of your question, for many of us Atheists, we find that investing everything we are into what we know as a natual world makes it a better place. No future reward or pat on the back by an invisible thug with a loaded .38...nope, we help others in the purest sense of the deed...to help others.

There was no ME before i was born, so by what arrogance does anyone have to say there will be a ME after i am gone? Because i had an emotional moving experince and a book?


D
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10-01-2012, 10:38 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 11:00 AM by Thatweirdkid.)
RE: Afterlife.
If I wrote a disgusting book full of racism, sexism, homophobia, misogyny, and infanticide, told you I wanted you to live by it, yelled "I'm doing this for you!" then blew my brains out, would you spend the rest of your life living by my book?

You say book of racism, sexism, homophobia and etc. I assume you are talking about the Bible. But I see the Bible as a book of love and grace. Once Jesus died the law was replaces by grace and forgiveness.

And if you argue that it was to save you from "original sin," you have to consider the source of such a thing. Where did original sin come from? The guy who just died for you made it up. It's the same technique a snake oil salesman uses.

God created man to love and serve Him. He knew we would fall form grace yet created us anyway. One thing I'll never know is why He gave us the freedom to choose. It baffles me. The Bible's historical accounts have never been proven wrong or right but it has the power to change lives. Only because it's the Word of God.

Step 1. Inform you of a disease that you have that is undetectable but is super serious.
Step 2. Claim that he alone has the cure for such an invisible disease.
Step 3. Profit.

As for the snake oil salesman, I think many people such as Joel Osteen and various other pastors do something similar. But I do not believe God is anything like that




Warning, you are about to be assaulted by lots of atheists trying to be your unholy savior. We tend to swarm on new forum theists in our excitement. Just take it all one post at a time.
[/quote]

Thank you for the warning, I figured as much would happen. I am an ever curious soul searching for answers as I expect others are.

(09-01-2012 10:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not an atheist, but I play one on TV.

(09-01-2012 10:32 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  We have to have faith where there is no evidence.

This is the weakest argument you can give in the midst of non-believers. Proof without evidence is scoffable.

In my opinion, I have no evidence that God exists specifically, But you have no evidence that can convince me He does not. Purpose is key. Without purpose what else is there? I am simply saying that you have faith that isn't in God. My faith is in God. I believe we all put our faith and hope in something. Can we just ignore hope and faith? I think not. As for faith being evidence I mispoke. I now see this. I do not have any evidence that God exists except the many changed lives I have seen.

Quote:My evidence is my faith and the fact that I am still here is what I believe on.


The opposite could be said for those that don't believe in God. Do you think that you're the only person to ever think that "you're not suppose to be here"? In fact, this revelation has caused many to see that there was no such thing as a god, much less a Christian God.

Fair point. I see how one could come to this conclusion

Quote:There is something in the back of my mind that argues away God but it doesn't last.

That's called common sense. You need to start listening to it.

Okay, but you have to believe in common sense. Something so great as common sense evolving from random chance? I don't think so. I believe God designed people and equipped them with the ability to somewhat evolve as far genes go in a sense. I believe in Micro evolution, that is to say people and animals can adapt to change and overcome it but it doesn't go beyond that. I believe every species is still a member of that species no matter how they've changed.

Quote:Many questions I have would go unanswered. For one, why do people live life in all its cruelty if there is no point to it?

What? You mean like every living life form alive? All life struggles to live for what? What reason? Animals, like ourselves, who experience love, empathy, emotional pain and distress, happiness and sadness, all strive for life and the continuation of our species. Do you think that this could be part of our evolved genetic code?

I believe it is part of our soul. Our genetic code explains some things but to me it fails to explain the deeper meaning and longings.

Quote:I would have checked out by now if I felt there was no purpose.

No, you wouldn't have. Your primitive trait called empathy wouldn't let you. If your other primitive trait called selfishness overpowered your empathetic side, then yes; however, from the simple fact that you're still alive, it shows that your empathy is stronger.

I believe man is, at the basic root, evil and not good. Sure we are capable of good, but My inmost being is pure evil by nature. I am a selfish being and am only human, so I believe I could take my own life. I just haven't yet because I don't want to surrender to myself. I refuse to lose that war. The easy way out isn't always the most fulfilling.

Quote:And Miracles in my own life are most of my evidence. I was in a terrible car accident where I flipped the car multiple times and took out a fence and a tree and it should have killed me but did not. I just knew I was going to die but then all of a sudden I knew I wasn't going to die. I obviously did not and all I can use to explain that away is God spared me for some reason. No one knows what that may be and it frustrates me but I nonetheless believe it. Can you tell me why I am still here if not for God?

That's a pretty bold statement. What about the engineers that designed the car? That takes some audacity to discount all the tireless YEARS that humans spent developing safety for automobiles. It was because of the genius of some that you are still alive. You should be thanking them

The car I was in was completely crushed and there was no possible way I should have been able to fit inside it after it came to a stop. I should have been hamburger. If not, then vaporized. The car is crap now. Also, the seat belt I was in wouldn't open and I managed to crawl out of it and it was locked tight against my body. I had a strange feeling of no pain even with a broken leg and I will not even say it was God because I know in fact that it was shock due to trauma and the release of adrenaline. But, I believe such an amazing reaction our body can produce didn't come about by random chance.

PS - just preparing you for this place

And thank you for being rational and for your comments. But, like you disagree with me, I disagree with you as well. Haha.
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