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15-09-2011, 10:45 AM
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:26 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  However, you did not reply to Peterkin who pointed out the mistake you had made and on which your whole argument rests.

His post doesn't disprove anything I said. Here is what he said.
Quote:According to the genesis story, they can't have been made to live forever, because after they ate the fruit of knowledge, the heavenly chorus says: better get rid of those pesky humans before they taste also of the tree of immortality and become like us.

It is obvious that God's original plan was for them to be immortal. The fact that it involved eating from a certain tree is irrelevant.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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15-09-2011, 10:54 AM
RE: Age
Despite the fact that he would have known that by placing it there that they would eat it?

So, your argument is that you have no evidence for something that there should be evidence for?

How about this for the creation argument. If every organism alive before the creation of sin and the fall of man was immortal, then there were no organisms killing other organisms. Immediately after the fall, however, the animals that were carnivorous would have needed to eat. So, what animals did they kill? If they all started hunting at once they would have killed off the mating pairs of organisms before they had a chance to breed. When were the predator-prey relationships established? By this I mean, all of the animals lived together at once, but no longer do. Do lions eat Zebras now because the unfortunate Zebra was the closest to them in Eden? Or do they have a particular affinity for how Zebra tastes, as opposed to the horses that roamed across North America?

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15-09-2011, 10:54 AM
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:38 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Instead scientist use science. They don't assume how old the earth is they use proven science to show how old the earth is.

But they do start with the assumption that God has never intervened and that the natural processes that are going on today have always been taking place. This forces them to come to the conclusion that the earth is old. It is also a human characteristic that we ignore anything that would show that our beliefs are wrong and in fact there are some facts that don't fit in with generally held scientific theories. You can find out about some of them here:

http://scienceagainstevolution.org/

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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15-09-2011, 10:55 AM
RE: Age
So, once again. God creates the laws of the universe, only to break them during the time of the bible, and then never breaks them again. Why?

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15-09-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:55 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So, once again. God creates the laws of the universe, only to break them during the time of the bible, and then never breaks them again. Why?

He has never broken the laws of the universe; he simply isn't subject to them and is able to do things outside of them.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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15-09-2011, 11:07 AM
RE: Age
So your premise is that God exists outside of the universe? What evidence (even biblical) exists that supports the fact that there is some sort of universe other than our own? And what evidence exists that suggests that anything from this separate universe is capable of interfering in this universe? And how can they laws of nature be manipulated? What mechanism exists for this to occur? And also my question about the predators of eden...

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15-09-2011, 11:15 AM
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:45 AM)theophilus Wrote:  His post doesn't disprove anything I said. Here is what he said.
Quote:According to the genesis story, they can't have been made to live forever, because after they ate the fruit of knowledge, the heavenly chorus says: better get rid of those pesky humans before they taste also of the tree of immortality and become like us.

It is obvious that God's original plan was for them to be immortal. The fact that it involved eating from a certain tree is irrelevant.

That obviousness is somewhat obscure.
Genesis ch4 v22
Quote:And he said, "Indeed! the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil! And now perhaps he will put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat , and live forever!"
I misattributed the sentence because of the word 'us' in it. Odd that it should, in fact, be God himself who said it. I guess he meant himself and the angels and demons, not the other Sumerian gods....?

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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15-09-2011, 11:52 AM
 
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:45 AM)theophilus Wrote:  It is obvious that God's original plan was for them to be immortal.

...and you know this for a fact because...?

Have you consulted your god about this? Does it know what you decided it must have intended?
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15-09-2011, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2011 02:16 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The problem is that people interpret the evidence according to what they already believe. For someone who begins with the belief that there has never been any divine intervention all the evidence will point to the earth being billions of years old.

What about the scientists who had the belief that god created all things? when they observed evidence and saw things such as evolution or the earth being billions of years old far older than the biblical account, wouldn't they interpret the evidence the same way as creationist do? As nonsense or as proof of the biblical account?

What you described is how people interpret evidence when they have an agenda, which is a classic example of how creationists interpret 'evidence'. See what you want to see and ignore anything that contradicts it.
But then what possible agenda would a scientist who believes in god but sees the evidence pointing to the biblical account being wrong have? Their original belief wouldn't be affecting the conclusion they drew from what the evidence was pointing to as their original belief was that god did it.

Also you are assuming that all scientists don't believe in a god something that I don't think is necessarily true.
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15-09-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: Age
(15-09-2011 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Most of the people who ever lived, even during Biblical times, never actually saw any miracles performed. Natural laws are God's normal method of running the universe and miracles are reserved only for special purposes. But it is possible that you might live long enough to see another divine intervention. A time is coming when all of the true Christians will be removed from the earth, the antichrist will come to power, and all the events prophesied in Revelation will begin to take place.

Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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