Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
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28-03-2016, 06:44 PM
RE: Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
So many theologies, sects, and beliefs get mixed in the collective masses.

The odd thing is how the omni-traits aren't really in any christian/jewish writings and origins but that seems to be a modern thing multiple people like to focus on.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-03-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Did I get it right?

Depends on the Christians.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  1. We can be blameless and perfect and still go to hell.

Mostly no. For various reasons, most denominations would disagree with this. Calvinists, for example, would say that no one is blameless and perfect (save Christ) and we are all born into sin. Catholics would say that those too young for sin to affect are sent to some lesser state like Limbo or Purgatory. Lutherans would emphasize that we've already received redemption for our sin in Christ, and to say otherwise (even when we DO sin) is to deny the power of the Resurrection.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  2. We all inherit sin (including babies)

Calvinists and, to a lesser degree, Catholics would agree. Other denominations, not so much.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  3. Repentance can save you, except in the case of Adam & Eve

Catholics say yes. Calvinists say that the elect are already saved and everyone else is already damned and nothing we can do (including reprentence) can change that.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  4. Only Jesus can save you, except in the case of everyone who died before Jesus was born.

Even those who died before Jesus was born. It's an ex-post facto thing, with Jesus coming into Hell to liberate the souls of those who died before he came. That's a pretty strong symbolism even where it isn't an official doctrine.

There's some dispute about what Jesus saving you means, though. Some denominations will say that Jesus can save you even if you went your entire life denying that he existed (he steps in afterwards to save you, or he's saved everyone already) while others say you have to specifically dedicate yourself to Jesus and be born again in faith for this to work.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  5. God changes your identity to a mindless worshiper for all eternity if you become a Christian.

That's what the book of Revelations describes, but it's not what most Christians believe.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  6. Eternal Damnation is an act of a merciful God.

Again, that's one way to read the Bible -- though some would refrain from describing God as merciful, and others say that the chance to avoid denomination offered in the form of Christ is sufficient mercy to qualify God as merciful. But most of them, I think, don't actually believe this.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  7. Christians can understand God, but they just can't explain it.

I think most would say that God is beyond human understanding.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  8. God sacrificed his Son for us but his son is still alive.

Yes. That is Christian logic. (Though "alive again" might be a better phrasing.)

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  9. If you believe Jesus died, even if he didn't, you will be saved

If you're seriously entertaining "even if he didn't", then you're probably not a Christian. That said, most Christian belief links Jesus's death to salvation, with "if he didn't" implying that salvation did not happen.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  10. God is all knowing but he doesn't know what choices we will make

Predeterminist Calvinists would say God knows even that. Others say that "all knowing" only means God knows everything that's going on right now, and in the past, but not necessarily in the future.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  11. God is all powerful but he cannot save us from eternal damnation.

CAN? Yes. Is willing to? ... maybe. Depends on denomination.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  12. God doesn't need anything, but he needs us & our money.

Oh no. Either it's the CHURCH that needs our money (because we need the church), or we need to give away our money to demonstrate our virtue or faith in some form or another.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  13. God loves us, that's why he created eternal damnation.

Views vary WILDLY here across denominations... everything from no, God doesn't love us (only the piece of God that Christ represent), to God didn't actually create damnation, to it was a necessary act of love to create damnation in order to bless us with justice, and more besides.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  14. God is unchanging, except when he makes mistakes and changes his mind.

"God makes mistakes" is not part of Christian logic, even if it seems that way a lot.

(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  15. The Bible is the word of God, but don't take it too seriously

Some denominations take it very seriously, and others say that it's not actually a literal word of God, but this is how it usually plays out in practice.
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29-03-2016, 12:54 AM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2016 01:25 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
(28-03-2016 06:59 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(28-03-2016 06:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  1. We can be blameless and perfect and still go to hell.

Mostly no. For various reasons, most denominations would disagree with this. Calvinists, for example, would say that no one is blameless and perfect (save Christ) and we are all born into sin. Catholics would say that those too young for sin to affect are sent to some lesser state like Limbo or Purgatory. Lutherans would emphasize that we've already received redemption for our sin in Christ, and to say otherwise (even when we DO sin) is to deny the power of the Resurrection.
Where did the concept of "only sinless man" come from?
Can any Christian show me one verse where Jesus said he was the "ONLY" perfect, blameless & sinless man?
What about all the people referred to below? Are they not blameless or perfect?

Job 1:1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2nd Kings 20:3] I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
Matthew 5:48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
John 17:23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
2nd Cor. 13:9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
Romans 12:2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Phillippians 3:15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
James 1:4] But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
1st Peter 5:10] But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you..
John 14:23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Deuteronomy 18:13 You must be blameless (tamiym) before the LORD your God.
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are they whose ways are blameless (tamiym), who walk according to the law of the LORD.
Proverbs 2:21 For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless (tamiym) will remain in it;
Proverbs 11:5 The righteousness of the blameless (tamiym) makes a straight way for them, but the wicked are brought down by their own wickedness.
Ezekiel 28:15 You were blameless (tamiym) in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless (tam) and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
Job 8:20 "Surely God does not reject a blameless (tam) man or strengthen the hands of evildoers.
Psalms 37:37 37 Consider the blameless (tam), observe the upright; there is a future for the man of peace.

The top 10 verses that speak about Jesus being sinless does not say he is the "ONLY" sinless man:
1 Peter 2:22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
2 Corinthians 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
1 John 3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves."
John 19:4 Pilate came out again and said to them, "Behold, I am bringing Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him."
John 8:29 "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."
Isaiah 53:9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
1 Peter 1:18-19 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

It would appear Christians came to the conclusion that Jesus was the "ONLY" sinless man from something other than the Bible.
It would also appear that being blameless used to get you a ticket into heaven (regardless of inherited sin) until Jesus came around and supposedly changed all of that.
If I am to believe that Jesus will still save me regardless of my belief in him, once I am blameless, then there is no reason for me to believe in him.
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29-03-2016, 01:09 AM
RE: Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
repost
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29-03-2016, 03:37 AM
RE: Agnostic Shane explains Christian Logic
caustic brain explaining christian logic is like Donald Trump explaining political correctness.

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