Agnostic triple whammy
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19-06-2016, 09:29 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
Why do you care what others think of your personal beliefs/non-beliefs?

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19-06-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
I've defined myself as a atheist simply because I lack a belief in a God, my fiance has defined himself as an agnostic for pretty much his whole life because he doesn't see any evidence either way.

For me I would need evidence or verifiable proof that a God exists, it doesn't need to be a personal god or a creator god, just something bigger than us or an intelligence that does effect our lives but until I see it for myself or experience it there is no reason to believe in it.

For an agnostic they don't feel comfortable saying "There is no God." until they see evidence for that, either way which is fair enough but the one thing I tell my fiance all the time is that we don't have any proof that Santa Claus doesn't exist either so is he open to that as a possibility and to be fair to him he is open to it, he's also open to unicorns being found or dragons, until he sees evidence either way to confirm it as a fact. So there is no reason for him to simply say "Dragons aren't real." until we know for sure they never existed or currently exist, we used to believe gorillas didn't really exist until they were finally discovered and photographed in 1902.

I just figure I don't see any evidence for a God, so I won't believe in one, I'm an atheist until it's discovered or I see it for myself, no reason to be agnostic about a myth or a fairy tale but that doesn't mean I can't respect that view either.

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19-06-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 07:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm a militant agnostic: I don't know and YOU DON'T EITHER!!!

I'm not so sure about that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-06-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 07:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm a militant agnostic: I don't know and YOU DON'T EITHER!!!

Oh yeah? Well I'm declaring myself an agnostic-agnostic. YOU CAN'T KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW AND I CAN'T EITHER!

Cue silliness-fueled infinite regress in three... two...
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19-06-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
I'm melting... melting... what a world...

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-06-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
I do believe strongly that agnostic is the only real position that is valid. Every once in a while in an argument with a Christian here someone (Maybe the same someone every time I don't keep track) wlll say if you can give me evidence I will believe, and to me that is the scientific platform. No I don't believe in any God which has been postulated to me, one who kills his own son and calls that love and loves you so much he makes rules that even he says is not possible for any human to keep and will be burned to death unless one drinks the blood of His dead son and eats his flesh. But that doesn't mean if he showed himself instead of cowering in the shadows that I still wouldn't believe in him, Love and respect, Probably not, but believe if shown yes.
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19-06-2016, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2016 06:11 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 02:14 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  I do believe strongly that agnostic is the only real position that is valid. Every once in a while in an argument with a Christian here someone (Maybe the same someone every time I don't keep track) wlll say if you can give me evidence I will believe, and to me that is the scientific platform. No I don't believe in any God which has been postulated to me, one who kills his own son and calls that love and loves you so much he makes rules that even he says is not possible for any human to keep and will be burned to death unless one drinks the blood of His dead son and eats his flesh. But that doesn't mean if he showed himself instead of cowering in the shadows that I still wouldn't believe in him, Love and respect, Probably not, but believe if shown yes.

Are you also agnostic with respect to flying teapots and pink sparkly unicorns ?
No.
You dismiss incoherent notions. The idea of a god is no more legitimate. Those ideas are as equally legitimate as a "god".
Agnosticism unwittingly gives more respect and validity to a concept than it deserves.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-06-2016, 03:44 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
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NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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19-06-2016, 06:40 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 03:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 02:14 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  I do believe strongly that agnostic is the only real position that is valid. Every once in a while in an argument with a Christian here someone (Maybe the same someone every time I don't keep track) wlll say if you can give me evidence I will believe, and to me that is the scientific platform. No I don't believe in any God which has been postulated to me, one who kills his own son and calls that love and loves you so much he makes rules that even he says is not possible for any human to keep and will be burned to death unless one drinks the blood of His dead son and eats his flesh. But that doesn't mean if he showed himself instead of cowering in the shadows that I still wouldn't believe in him, Love and respect, Probably not, but believe if shown yes.

Are you also agnostic with respect to flying teapots and pink sparkly unicorns ?
No.
You dismiss incoherent notions. The idea of a god is no more legitimate. Those ideas are as equally legitimate as a "god".
Agnosticism unwittingly gives more respect and validity to a concept than it deserves.

I agree and it's a topic I bring up a lot with my fiance, why is the God myth still somehow valid, he says "Yes all the evidence we have points to there being no God, but there might still be one. I don't know." But why? Why is this still an option? Can we say the same for anything that can be made up and imagined? Are the smurfs maybe real too? I mean, I don't know! I've never been to their cute little mushroom village, no one knows where it is, we may find them one day.

Ok to the agnostics, if I make something up right now and say there is a magic fluffy cat that has pink fur with wings and she can grant wishes to little children she visits, is she real? I just made her up right now, on the spot, so is the answer "No she's not real." or "I don't know."? The correct answer is "No." Until I prove she is real or you see her for yourself, the answer is "No."

If others say "I saw the pink flying cat!" the answer should still be "No." unless they can prove it, if not it's anecdotal, until we find evidence of this cat I just made up the answer won't be "I don't know. " it will be "No."

Just like every God we ever made up in the history of human existence. The answer will always be "No, this God doesn't exist until it's proven to exist." To say "I don't know, neither do you." implies validity to the claim, but if that's the case than their God claim is just as valid as my flying cat so you don't know if this cat is real, you can't say either way , even though you know I just made her up? Does that make any sense?

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19-06-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

There are three main arguments that others have used against me when I confess to liking agnosticism.

1. From the theist - ‘You are a closet atheist’.

2. From the atheist - ‘You are a closet theist’.

3. From both – ‘You can’t make up your mind, but you will eventually see the light and join us’

I wonder: Is agnosticism a satisfactory world view, or is there something wrong with it?

D.

There's nothing wrong with it and people should self-identify however they like.

The problem is that (1) There are a couple of different definitions of "agnostic" and "atheist" and (2) some people are pushy pricks who like to start arguments so that they can feel morally superior. The end result of that foolishness is an agnostic or atheist claiming that theirs is The One True Way, which is a patently absurd stance.

As far as definitions go, there is the colloquial definition where agnostic is viewed as an uncertain individual somewhere between theists and atheists.

By a more technical definition, theism/atheism and gnosticism/agnosticism refer to different aspects of your belief, or lack thereof. Theism refers to belief in god whereas atheism refers to the lack of belief. There isn't anything betwixt or between because either you believe or you don't. You aren't uncertain that you believe. Gnosticism/agnosticism plots along a separate 'axis' and refers to what you know or don't know. That's where the agnostic uncertainty comes in, with respect to what you know for a certainty.

I identify as an atheist, largely because it's easier than explaining this every time somebody ask when I really don't feel like getting into it. That and it's less of a mouthful. And fewer believers try to convert me.

Using the technical definitions, it depends on the deity in question. With respect to the Deistic Creator that wound the universe up and let it go I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't believe but I don't know for certain.

With respect to the Biblically Literal God I'm a gnostic atheist in that I don't believe and I know that the "God" described doesn't exist. It's a mess of contradictions wodged together by a host of different priests over several centuries with all the charm, wit and intellect of an invading bronze-age tribe of goat herders.

Most people are a mix like that. You'll get gnostic theists who believe in the Lord Allmighty who are also gnostic atheists with espect to Odin. So it's easier to use conversational shorthand and people shouldn't get their nickers in a knot about how anybody else decides to describe themselves.

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