Agnostic triple whammy
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19-06-2016, 09:48 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 06:40 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I agree and it's a topic I bring up a lot with my fiance, why is the God myth still somehow valid, he says "Yes all the evidence we have points to there being no God, but there might still be one. I don't know."

Depends on the definition of "God" being employed.

If we're talking about some vague Creator who may or may not have kickstared the universe then I can't entirely rule it out. There is a lot of stuff we don't know and this could be part of it. I don't believe it but I don't know for certain so I'm an agnostic atheist with respect to a deistic god. People can make ridiculous shit up all they want and it doesn't affect me at all. I can't disprove the Invisible Pink Unicorn but I don't waste much brain power on Her either.

On the other hand, if we're talking about the temper tantrum of bigotry, fanaticism and internal contradiction that is the biblical god then I will cheerfully rule that out as being a load of horseshit.

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19-06-2016, 09:53 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 02:14 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  I do believe strongly that agnostic is the only real position that is valid.

And this loose use of terms and ill-considered rectitude is a fine example of exactly how these nasty little arguments get started. "Only real position that is valid" is a very short step from "The Light and The Way" and invites us to point and snicker. Laughat

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19-06-2016, 10:28 PM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
I am an atheist. It seems obvious all god concepts are fictional.

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19-06-2016, 11:29 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2016 12:04 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
I am an agnostic atheist. As an agnostic, I think that if there is such a being as humans (try to) talk about under the vague title of "God", it's well beyond the human scope of discovery within my lifetime or any foreseeable future. I think it is simply impossible for anyone to know, which is the root of the word agnostic.

Under that same concept, I find every story I've ever seen by humans about this god-concept to be so obviously fictional as to be laughable. Thus I am an atheist.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-06-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
Just be yourself, who cares what you are labeled as.


(19-06-2016 03:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Oh goody!

We haven't had an argument over definitions for at least a day.

Welcome to TTA.

Wink

We need one of those "Days without an accident" signs for that.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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20-06-2016, 01:08 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 09:53 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 02:14 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  I do believe strongly that agnostic is the only real position that is valid.

And this loose use of terms and ill-considered rectitude is a fine example of exactly how these nasty little arguments get started. "Only real position that is valid" is a very short step from "The Light and The Way" and invites us to point and snicker. Laughat

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies; yours, Paleophyte, does address the core concern in the OP quite succinctly in my view.

When I told a Christian minister "If Jesus why not Mohammed" he became shirty and called me "morally sick". I have had similar finger wagging from Buddhists (even) and some quite lively jibes from atheists, including "An atheist is a person without an invisible means of support".

The point of the OP is a psychological one. Why is it that people think that a position of 'knowing' on this existential subject is so superior to not 'knowing', to the extent of attracting jibes? My old philosophy prof used to say "The only thing I can be sure of is that I might be wrong". OK, this may not have validity in the sense of formal logic, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Why does this simple observation raise so many hackles?

D.
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20-06-2016, 03:18 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(20-06-2016 01:08 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 09:53 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  And this loose use of terms and ill-considered rectitude is a fine example of exactly how these nasty little arguments get started. "Only real position that is valid" is a very short step from "The Light and The Way" and invites us to point and snicker. Laughat

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies; yours, Paleophyte, does address the core concern in the OP quite succinctly in my view.

When I told a Christian minister "If Jesus why not Mohammed" he became shirty and called me "morally sick". I have had similar finger wagging from Buddhists (even) and some quite lively jibes from atheists, including "An atheist is a person without an invisible means of support".

The point of the OP is a psychological one. Why is it that people think that a position of 'knowing' on this existential subject is so superior to not 'knowing', to the extent of attracting jibes? My old philosophy prof used to say "The only thing I can be sure of is that I might be wrong". OK, this may not have validity in the sense of formal logic, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Why does this simple observation raise so many hackles?

D.

Simple "agnostic" without qualification seems to imply that all viewpoints are somehow equivalent and equally worthy of respect - not true. Religion is a fairytale. I am agnostic about it only to the extent that I acknowlege that you can change my mind by providing acceptable evidence. But *belief* vs knowledge or the lack thereof... Rational belief is grounded in observation and scientific method. Knowledge is a different beast.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-06-2016, 07:32 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(19-06-2016 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  1. From the theist - ‘You are a closet atheist’.

2. From the atheist - ‘You are a closet theist’.

3. From both – ‘You can’t make up your mind, but you will eventually see the light and join us’

I tend to get slightly different accusations thrown at me.
  • Atheists tend to say I'm shirking away from the stigma of the label "atheist".
  • Theists say I'm just being some edgelord who is looking to form solidarity so I can add the numbers of both groups together to make atheism look more popular.
I don't believe in any gods. No one has shown me anything approaching solid proof of any gods. I've gotten bored of arguing whether atheists don't believe in gods or believe there are no gods. Any way you slice it, I'm being labeled base on someone else's belief system.
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20-06-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(20-06-2016 07:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  1. From the theist - ‘You are a closet atheist’.

2. From the atheist - ‘You are a closet theist’.

3. From both – ‘You can’t make up your mind, but you will eventually see the light and join us’

I tend to get slightly different accusations thrown at me.
  • Atheists tend to say I'm shirking away from the stigma of the label "atheist".
  • Theists say I'm just being some edgelord who is looking to form solidarity so I can add the numbers of both groups together to make atheism look more popular.
I don't believe in any gods. No one has shown me anything approaching solid proof of any gods. I've gotten bored of arguing whether atheists don't believe in gods or believe there are no gods. Any way you slice it, I'm being labeled base on someone else's belief system.

I don't think it is based on others' belief systems, just their word definitions. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-06-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: Agnostic triple whammy
(20-06-2016 07:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 02:09 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  1. From the theist - ‘You are a closet atheist’.

2. From the atheist - ‘You are a closet theist’.

3. From both – ‘You can’t make up your mind, but you will eventually see the light and join us’

I tend to get slightly different accusations thrown at me.
  • Atheists tend to say I'm shirking away from the stigma of the label "atheist".
  • Theists say I'm just being some edgelord who is looking to form solidarity so I can add the numbers of both groups together to make atheism look more popular.
I don't believe in any gods. No one has shown me anything approaching solid proof of any gods. I've gotten bored of arguing whether atheists don't believe in gods or believe there are no gods. Any way you slice it, I'm being labeled base on someone else's belief system.

Shut up you silly edgelord. Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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