Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
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10-02-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
For those who can't be bothered going to Egor's site, here are the essentials of Egor's argument:

1) The sacrifice wasn't from us to God, it was from him to us, because nothing could be worse than being a human for a while. (Why create us in the first place if we're so shit?)
2) People are saved from sin by transforming into Christ through faith.
3) When Jesus says he sheds his blood for the forgiveness of sins, he doesn't refer to his death on the cross, he's referring to people consuming him in order to turn into him. (So it's not through faith after all, it's through cannibalism.)
4) Human sacrifice idea doesn't add up because
a) Human sacrifice is forbidden in the Old Testament and Jews never practiced it. (Well yes but it's the Christians not the Jews who view him as a human sacrifice. The Jews think it's bollocks.)
b) Because Jesus was God in human form it would make no sense for him to sacrifice himself to himself. (Straw man - the fact that the idea is that it is humans sacrificing Jesus, not God.)
c) Jews and Romans crucified Christ out of hatred not as repentance. (And what about the Messianic Jews who supposedly thought of Jesus as the saviour and then became Christians - like the disciples for example?)
d) Why would Jesus forgive them for not knowing what they are doing if they were supposed to do it. (Again ignoring that the Jews who didn't accept him and the Romans wouldn't have thought of him as a sacrifice anyway)


Conclusion: Jesus not a human sacrifice but the sacrifice of God by becoming human so that people can know him and consume him "spiritually" (so it wasn't actually his body and blood after all?) so they can become one with him (so not actually becoming him then).

Obviously bolded stuff is mine - I could probably do better if I thought about it thoroughly but I didn't care enough.
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10-02-2013, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2013 02:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
(10-02-2013 06:58 PM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  For those who can't be bothered going to Egor's site, here are the essentials of Egor's argument:

1) The sacrifice wasn't from us to God, it was from him to us, because nothing could be worse than being a human for a while. (Why create us in the first place if we're so shit?)
2) People are saved from sin by transforming into Christ through faith.
3) When Jesus says he sheds his blood for the forgiveness of sins, he doesn't refer to his death on the cross, he's referring to people consuming him in order to turn into him. (So it's not through faith after all, it's through cannibalism.)
4) Human sacrifice idea doesn't add up because
a) Human sacrifice is forbidden in the Old Testament and Jews never practiced it. (Well yes but it's the Christians not the Jews who view him as a human sacrifice. The Jews think it's bollocks.)
b) Because Jesus was God in human form it would make no sense for him to sacrifice himself to himself. (Straw man - the fact that the idea is that it is humans sacrificing Jesus, not God.)
c) Jews and Romans crucified Christ out of hatred not as repentance. (And what about the Messianic Jews who supposedly thought of Jesus as the saviour and then became Christians - like the disciples for example?)
d) Why would Jesus forgive them for not knowing what they are doing if they were supposed to do it. (Again ignoring that the Jews who didn't accept him and the Romans wouldn't have thought of him as a sacrifice anyway)

Conclusion: Jesus not a human sacrifice but the sacrifice of God by becoming human so that people can know him and consume him "spiritually" (so it wasn't actually his body and blood after all?) so they can become one with him (so not actually becoming him then).

Obviously bolded stuff is mine - I could probably do better if I thought about it thoroughly but I didn't care enough.
Well that's fun. "Sacrifice from him to us" ?? Hahah. The Gnostics also thought Jebus took on the corrupt (awful) human form, and that was his sacrifice, (Saul of T also said something like that "taking on human form, not clinging to godhood", or some-such ancient nonsense. It's also interesting, as Egsy has a really bad opinion of humans in general, (without his god they are corrupt, and Egsy has this great fear of what HE also would be without his god), so at least he's consistent, (even though he should get out of Psychiatry and get some different friends, as it's obviously skewed his opinion of humans in general). Jebus was executed not for any cosmic reason. He was a common crook/troublemaker. Nothing else.
I like how all atheists are lumped together. I wonder if most who talk about them have even ever met one or two. What Jebus "did on the cross" was no different than all the other dying and rising messiahs of his day. Nothing.

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11-02-2013, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2013 01:54 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
(09-02-2013 04:07 PM)Egor Wrote:  What Jesus did on the cross, what he did in his life, is completely lost on atheists. You ridiculous fools don't even believe God exists--so why do you go on about the things of Christ? Are you looking for something? Are you missing something? Shouldn't you just be out breeding or dying somewhere? What could Christ possibly mean to you? Huh

[Image: l179.jpg]

From now on whenever Egor opens his mouth to spew forth intolerance and hatred, he's getting the pigeon...

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11-02-2013, 02:21 AM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2013 03:24 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
(11-02-2013 01:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-02-2013 04:07 PM)Egor Wrote:  Whenever Egor opens his mouth to spew forth intolerance and hatred, he's getting the pigeon...

Isn't that what internet "ordained", (ie credentials purchased for $29.99) supposed to do ? What else would they be good for ?
I wonder if even 1 person has ever been converted by being insulted and yelled at ?
But we dasn't be too hard on the prophet class. It ain't easy cooking up a new beligion, and getting it sold.

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11-02-2013, 04:58 AM
RE: Agrument Against the Sacrificial Death of Jesus
(11-02-2013 02:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 01:44 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  

I wonder if even 1 person has ever been converted by being insulted and yelled at ?
Probably quite a lot of children Angry
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