Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-12-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(29-12-2015 05:44 PM)John Silver Wrote:  Yeah...my adult daughter was asking me to explain the Book of John from the NT to her...she didn't understand ....ok listen I will tell you....."he dwelt among us and we did not recognize him.....the word was from the beginning ....the word was made flesh and dwelt......." WTF?.....I had bought into and believed this stuff for 50years........she then asked....did he really walk on the red sea? ah...well ....ahhhh....hum...?

Yeah it all sorta came crashing down real sudden like..

Sometimes explaining things to others gives us another kind of understanding we didn't have before. As a teacher I have experience this many times. Thank you for sharing. This is something I can relate to.

If you don't mind, did she also have an ah-ha moment of seeing that for what it was worth?

[Image: dnw9krH.jpg?4]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Heatheness's post
29-12-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(29-12-2015 05:51 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:44 PM)John Silver Wrote:  Yeah...my adult daughter was asking me to explain the Book of John from the NT to her...she didn't understand ....ok listen I will tell you....."he dwelt among us and we did not recognize him.....the word was from the beginning ....the word was made flesh and dwelt......." WTF?.....I had bought into and believed this stuff for 50years........she then asked....did he really walk on the red sea? ah...well ....ahhhh....hum...?

Yeah it all sorta came crashing down real sudden like..

Sometimes explaining things to others gives us another kind of understanding we didn't have before. As a teacher I have experience this many times. Thank you for sharing. This is something I can relate to.

If you don't mind, did she also have an ah-ha moment of seeing that for what it was worth?

No...you see she was already in great doubt about the text...salvation......jesus and the whole god thing to start with. She was asking me to explain it to where the understanding would make her believe.

From early on we had taught her santa was not real.....the tooth fairy was all made up......so when it came to church...even though I was in the pulpit many times of her early life and we tried to set and live as we believed.......she sensed the bull-shit of it all.. to her it seemed just like the Disney style fairy tells.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like John Silver's post
29-12-2015, 11:42 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(29-12-2015 08:48 PM)John Silver Wrote:  From early on we had taught her santa was not real.....the tooth fairy was all made up......so when it came to church...even though I was in the pulpit many times of her early life and we tried to set and live as we believed.......she sensed the bull-shit of it all.. to her it seemed just like the Disney style fairy tells.


Smart kid, good work. Thumbsup

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
30-12-2015, 03:25 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(29-12-2015 05:51 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:44 PM)John Silver Wrote:  Yeah...my adult daughter was asking me to explain the Book of John from the NT to her...she didn't understand ....ok listen I will tell you....."he dwelt among us and we did not recognize him.....the word was from the beginning ....the word was made flesh and dwelt......." WTF?.....I had bought into and believed this stuff for 50years........she then asked....did he really walk on the red sea? ah...well ....ahhhh....hum...?

Yeah it all sorta came crashing down real sudden like..

Sometimes explaining things to others gives us another kind of understanding we didn't have before. As a teacher I have experience this many times. Thank you for sharing. This is something I can relate to.

If you don't mind, did she also have an ah-ha moment of seeing that for what it was worth?

This is so true. As a teacher, whether it be music or martial arts, a student can ask a question of something taken for granted. Answering the question makes one think. I have learned so much from students asking questions.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Banjo's post
30-12-2015, 03:57 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(30-12-2015 03:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  This is so true. As a teacher, whether it be music or martial arts, a student can ask a question of something taken for granted. Answering the question makes one think. I have learned so much from students asking questions.


The Socratic Method at work. Thumbsup


[Image: img_2438.png]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like EvolutionKills's post
30-12-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(29-12-2015 08:48 PM)John Silver Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:51 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Sometimes explaining things to others gives us another kind of understanding we didn't have before. As a teacher I have experience this many times. Thank you for sharing. This is something I can relate to.

If you don't mind, did she also have an ah-ha moment of seeing that for what it was worth?

No...you see she was already in great doubt about the text...salvation......jesus and the whole god thing to start with. She was asking me to explain it to where the understanding would make her believe.

From early on we had taught her santa was not real.....the tooth fairy was all made up......so when it came to church...even though I was in the pulpit many times of her early life and we tried to set and live as we believed.......she sensed the bull-shit of it all.. to her it seemed just like the Disney style fairy tells.


You are a very good father! Thumbsup

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes dancefortwo's post
01-01-2016, 09:07 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(27-12-2015 08:02 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  As a never-believer I'm a bit fascinated about how theists came to leave their faith behind. The struggle from indoctrination and fear of rejection from others is sometimes long and arduous and sometimes an epiphany.

Did you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Or if not then how did you come to your reason.

Yes, when I learned the philosophy of reason, my belief just melted away. Specifically when I learned about the issue of metaphysical primacy, that was the dead end for my belief in even the possibility of the God I had been raised to believe in. It's what gave me the confidence to openly admit that I was atheist.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like true scotsman's post
01-01-2016, 09:42 PM
Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
It was when I tried to reason why I believed what I did. Not one aha, but little tremors that became my earthquake, or aha-quake.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Clockwork's post
02-01-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(27-12-2015 08:02 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  As a never-believer I'm a bit fascinated about how theists came to leave their faith behind. The struggle from indoctrination and fear of rejection from others is sometimes long and arduous and sometimes an epiphany.

Did you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Or if not then how did you come to your reason.

I think it was a combination of aha moments and then slowly working through the doubts. My first aha moment was being told god answers prayer. I had a back condition that I had to have surgery for, I had to have an answer to the prayer for my healing before the back surgery.

So the entire church prayed for me, my family prayed for me, and absolutely nothing happened. This situation put a specific time limit on whether the prayer was answered, so "wait" was not an answer.
Also this wasn't like cancer which sometimes goes into remission, this was a back curvature, a physical condition that would not reverse itself unless it had miraculous intervention or surgical intervention.
Since everyone in church was praying for me, the accusatory excuse of failed prayer, not having enough faith, wouldn't work either.

So with all of these excuse-generating mechanisms nullified, prayer; and god, failed the test. That left me as a teenager to struggle with why it failed, I continued in the faith for about 30 years, but I dropped out of church about 5 years later.

After working through the problem of suffering and realizing, and witnessing other people in church not getting answers, but generating excuses for why they didn't get answers, I realized it was BS, a con job that generated excuses and not answers. A way of looking at the world with god goggles and constantly telling yourself you're getting answers, yet never able to repeatably demonstrate that claim.

I rejected the idea of prayer working, I realized you had to view things in a falsifiable manner and not generate excuses when it fails. After dropping out of church, I slowly reasoned through the creation and flood myths, I reasoned they couldn't have happened the way the bible said, I dismissed the creation myth as metaphorical, yet still thought god in some deistic form still existed.

Fast forward about 30 years, I had a heated exchange with my mom trying to get me to "get back in church", I answered with a resounding "no way!".

This was my second "aha moment", delayed thirty years, at this point, I had already rejected major points of the bible and claims made by the bible. I simply said to myself that it was time to resolve the question, so I finally picked up books written by atheists for their perspective.

I had harbored doubts for decades, but I never systematically put everything together to tear apart the god concept, when I picked up John Loftus' book Why I Became An Atheist, I was ready to listen. That book helped organize and clarify my doubts while providing further points I never considered before.

It provided a starting point and the entire house of cards that was my faith, collapsed.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like TheInquisition's post
02-01-2016, 08:22 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(02-01-2016 07:38 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 08:02 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  As a never-believer I'm a bit fascinated about how theists came to leave their faith behind. The struggle from indoctrination and fear of rejection from others is sometimes long and arduous and sometimes an epiphany.

Did you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Or if not then how did you come to your reason.

I think it was a combination of aha moments and then slowly working through the doubts. My first aha moment was being told god answers prayer. I had a back condition that I had to have surgery for, I had to have an answer to the prayer for my healing before the back surgery.

So the entire church prayed for me, my family prayed for me, and absolutely nothing happened. This situation put a specific time limit on whether the prayer was answered, so "wait" was not an answer.
Also this wasn't like cancer which sometimes goes into remission, this was a back curvature, a physical condition that would not reverse itself unless it had miraculous intervention or surgical intervention.
Since everyone in church was praying for me, the accusatory excuse of failed prayer, not having enough faith, wouldn't work either.

So with all of these excuse-generating mechanisms nullified, prayer; and god, failed the test. That left me as a teenager to struggle with why it failed, I continued in the faith for about 30 years, but I dropped out of church about 5 years later.

After working through the problem of suffering and realizing, and witnessing other people in church not getting answers, but generating excuses for why they didn't get answers, I realized it was BS, a con job that generated excuses and not answers. A way of looking at the world with god goggles and constantly telling yourself you're getting answers, yet never able to repeatably demonstrate that claim.

I rejected the idea of prayer working, I realized you had to view things in a falsifiable manner and not generate excuses when it fails. After dropping out of church, I slowly reasoned through the creation and flood myths, I reasoned they couldn't have happened the way the bible said, I dismissed the creation myth as metaphorical, yet still thought god in some deistic form still existed.

Fast forward about 30 years, I had a heated exchange with my mom trying to get me to "get back in church", I answered with a resounding "no way!".

This was my second "aha moment", delayed thirty years, at this point, I had already rejected major points of the bible and claims made by the bible. I simply said to myself that it was time to resolve the question, so I finally picked up books written by atheists for their perspective.

I had harbored doubts for decades, but I never systematically put everything together to tear apart the god concept, when I picked up John Loftus' book Why I Became An Atheist, I was ready to listen. That book helped organize and clarify my doubts while providing further points I never considered before.

It provided a starting point and the entire house of cards that was my faith, collapsed.

Yes, the prayer thing. As a kid I prayed and prayed for god to stop the abuse that went on at home. I really wanted him to help me like I was told he would. As is typical of someone who is abused I then figured that I wasn't worthy of help. No matter what I did I wasn't good enough for god to stop the violence. As I got older and was more exposed to other people and issues I finally realized that god simply didn't answer anyone's prayers. The little bit of belief I had started to fall away until there was none left.

Religion/prayer = false hope.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Anjele's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: