Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
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14-01-2016, 03:36 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(13-01-2016 03:13 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  It's so much harder to get free when you're older than when you're young, I think.

When you're older you've invested in it. It's like any scam. They push you to invest when you're young - to make friends in the Church, to do things the Church way, to marry a Christian, to give to the Church. In return, they love you back. They give you what you pay for. Community. A sense of belonging.

When you're right the fuck in it, when you're fully invested, *that*... it's hard to walk away from that. Even if you have doubts, you'll suppress them.

There's lots of other stuff. Mind traps. People are taught early on to doubt their own logic, that the way to investigate a claim is to read what some idiot thought about it centuries ago, to pray, and to ask others who are 'stronger in faith' than you. They're also taught that the world is all about a struggle with good and evil, that anything that contradicts religion is the devil trying to get in your head etc. They are taught that the reason science seems hard is not because it *is* hard, but because it is a devilish trick invented by the godless in a desperate attempt to deny the reality of God and avoid culpability for their "sins", and that it's hard because it's so patently absurd. Evolution? Pfft!

It's hard to see how when you *haven't* been brought up in that environment, but when you *have*... Yeah... there's a little bit of a bitter taste. Imagine having to confront the reality that everyone whom you admire and look up to a. is human b. is fucking clueless c. sincerely believed a lie and taught it to you as absolute (Gospel) truth. Pretty much everyone has to deal with a and b, the lucky among us don't have to deal with c.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-01-2016, 05:01 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?



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14-01-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(14-01-2016 03:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 03:13 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  It's so much harder to get free when you're older than when you're young, I think.

When you're older you've invested in it. It's like any scam. They push you to invest when you're young - to make friends in the Church, to do things the Church way, to marry a Christian, to give to the Church. In return, they love you back. They give you what you pay for. Community. A sense of belonging.

When you're right the fuck in it, when you're fully invested, *that*... it's hard to walk away from that. Even if you have doubts, you'll suppress them.

There's lots of other stuff. Mind traps. People are taught early on to doubt their own logic, that the way to investigate a claim is to read what some idiot thought about it centuries ago, to pray, and to ask others who are 'stronger in faith' than you. They're also taught that the world is all about a struggle with good and evil, that anything that contradicts religion is the devil trying to get in your head etc. They are taught that the reason science seems hard is not because it *is* hard, but because it is a devilish trick invented by the godless in a desperate attempt to deny the reality of God and avoid culpability for their "sins", and that it's hard because it's so patently absurd. Evolution? Pfft!

It's hard to see how when you *haven't* been brought up in that environment, but when you *have*... Yeah... there's a little bit of a bitter taste. Imagine having to confront the reality that everyone whom you admire and look up to a. is human b. is fucking clueless c. sincerely believed a lie and taught it to you as absolute (Gospel) truth. Pretty much everyone has to deal with a and b, the lucky among us don't have to deal with c.

Yes, it's a funnel with everything around you bringing you back to the fold and pushing you down the rabbit hole.

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16-01-2016, 08:44 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(27-12-2015 08:02 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  As a never-believer I'm a bit fascinated about how theists came to leave their faith behind. The struggle from indoctrination and fear of rejection from others is sometimes long and arduous and sometimes an epiphany.

Did you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Or if not then how did you come to your reason.

I came to reason when I hit the age of reason, more or less. By my first communion (2nd grade) I was already sorta doubting the whole edifice. It just didn't make sense. The moment I fulfilled my familial duty to get confirmed was my last moment in the church.
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26-01-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
I grew up basic Southern Baptist. Married a Presbyterian (conservative side) and raised 2 kids in the church. I taught sunday school, vacation bible school, homeschooled (for a couple of years), led bible studies. Raised a youth pastor son and an atheist daugther. haha.
I had always, even as a child, asked a lot of questions. I was told I was too skeptical and needed faith. My (ex)husband told me once that I would never reach his "spiritual plane". I searched all the biblical scholars to help me reconcile all my questions with science and reason. I searched the bible, Schaeffer, RC Sproul, Calvin, Spurgeon... all the big names. No one answered my questions. I was also very angry. I was always told that being female was worse. Eve caused Adam to sin. God made woman to help man, not the other way around. Woman is to be submissive. That NEVER set well with me. (I was a martial artist and ran and worked out with the guys. My husband thought being a man meant smacking his wife. Shall we say I was NOT submissive and he did not hit me ever again). Finally my anger with a god who never answered my prayers ("oh, but HE just says NO sometimes"), a god who hated women, a god who didn't care about people in other parts of the world became too great and I decided that if I considered the idea that there may be no god, even if I went to hell for it, I was already going to hell for hating god so much, so might as well chance it. That's when I was introduced to God Is Not Great by Hitchens. When he said that he could never condemn his daughter to eternal hell no matter what she did and that showed he knew how to love better than god...that resonated with me and it was like an epiphany. All the pieces fell in to place immediately and all my anger went away. Suddenly, life wasn't anybody's fault, it just was as it was and I became content. All of this was immediate...at the age of 50. I have never felt so wonderful and free in my life. My (new) husband has become as deconverted as I and life is grand!

Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think.
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15-02-2016, 11:58 PM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
:/ not really, I always had my suspicions, because it never made any sense to me. It was a gradual process for me. At one point it started bothering me so much I decided to read the bible.

I do not understand how anyone can read through the old testament without either bursting out into laughter or getting pissed.

I sincerely think most Christians do not even read the bible.

“Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.” ― Mark Twain
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16-02-2016, 01:00 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
I used to think I was an expert at the bible, hell, I even pteached it!. That was until just recently when I started to buy go to church coz our new church was very far and I had to walk there. Becoming an atheist for me was a process coz I was changing the very core of my mentality bit by bit. I had my Ah ha! moment when I finally watched this program "Rebuilding Noah's ark" on national geographic( I started watching coz I thought it would validate my faith). Then I noticed that the bible story is not even original. After that I jst began to read extensive articles on wikipedia concerning authorship of the bible and"Evolution of God". Then I guess I'm still shedding the "faith skin" bt I can say w/out a doubt that I'm be in a CERTIFIABLE ATHEIST, PS its fun to use my head and not buy into ancient unoriginal beliefs based on human imagination
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16-02-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
There's a bit of irony in my a-ha moment, if you can call it a moment. Fortunately for me, my family wasn't overly religious during my formative years. As Catholics, they made me complete all of the silly rituals, yet we NEVER went to church. I lost my religion first, but I lost any belief in a god when my mother decided three decades later to start going to church. She and my SIL became these overbearing born-again Catholics and deemed everything a miracle. It got to be so much that I decided to do some critical thinking about the whole thing. That's when I found Hitch, Dillahunty and Dawkins. Sprinkle in some Harris and good-old-fashioned common sense and you have the recipe for an atheist. If there was an a-ha moment in there, though, I would say it was the prayer chapter in the God Delusion.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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16-02-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
(16-02-2016 08:06 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  There's a bit of irony in my a-ha moment, if you can call it a moment. Fortunately for me, my family wasn't overly religious during my formative years. As Catholics, they made me complete all of the silly rituals, yet we NEVER went to church. I lost my religion first, but I lost any belief in a god when my mother decided three decades later to start going to church. She and my SIL became these overbearing born-again Catholics and deemed everything a miracle. It got to be so much that I decided to do some critical thinking about the whole thing. That's when I found Hitch, Dillahunty and Dawkins. Sprinkle in some Harris and good-old-fashioned common sense and you have the recipe for an atheist. If there was an a-ha moment in there, though, I would say it was the prayer chapter in the God Delusion.

Interesting, besides never reading the bible, I have never read any atheist books either. I tried reading Penn Gillett's "No Gods" but as much as I love him his book was meh. I donated to the library. Smile

I just have no interest in educating myself on this subject from either POV. I love talking to other atheist but for reading or education in faith/non-faith, no.

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16-02-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: Ah Ha Moment, did you have one?
I was raised in the church. Very difficult to leave.

When I was in my teens I questioned it, even identified as agnostic. I remember sitting in Sunday School asking how a loving God could send people born in India to hell, all because we, fortunate enough to be born into Christian families, didn't get to them in time to spread the gospel, or because they heard so little of it they failed to accept it because they had been taught a different religion they believed to be true from birth. My teachers were stumped on that one. I thought it *should* have been an easy question to answer.

I ended up coming back around to Christianity when I was 18 - I was quite brainwashed as a child. I never did go back to fundamentalism, though. My god was loving, Jesus was a hippie, most of the bible was a metaphor or flawed writing because the scriptures were written by men in caves. Love others as I want to be loved, judge not lest I be judged - those were (and still are) my life philosophies. Nothing ever set well with me, answers were never good enough, but surely we weren't alone in this universe, right?

My "aha" moment was after I had just worked several difficult traumas, including a 2 week old infant that most certainly died. My (now ex) husband got called out on a child rape case. So where was god for this child? Either he wasn't all loving and didn't stop it despite having the power, he wasn't all powerful and couldn't stop it, or maybe...he didn't exist. The world made much more sense without a god, certainly functions as if there is no God.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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