Al Franken is resigning
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07-12-2017, 12:26 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 11:58 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's interesting that most of the men who are accused are in a certain age group. Or maybe I have missed reports about younger ones?
Dirty old men!
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07-12-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
Hmm. I think a lot of people are missing the big picture. I don't think that the "house cleaning" by the Democrats is futile. They don't care what the elected Republicans or their hardcore supporters think about it, because it isn't about the the Republicans. The DNC has been floundering a bit this year, trying to figure out a message that will resonate with voters in 2018 and 2020 and carry them forward. Now the #MeToo movement has given them a message, and they see a route forward with it, especially with female voters.

Possibly the best thing that could happen for them now is for Alabama to send Roy Moore to the Senate, where he will have plenty of opportunities to show off the extent of his "values" - while his Republican colleagues scurry to avoid being close to him or (heaven forbid!) be caught in a photo actually talking to him. The Dems will use him to motivate women to run for office. They will do their best to get pictures of him with any Congressman or Senator running for reelection in 2018. They will tie any Republican Senator who votes on a bill with Roy Moore to his "values". Moore will be shunned by his own party in the Senate, and anyone up for re-election next year. If Moore loses next week, then the message will be that decency and good character can win out if voters want it to. It's a win either way, as long as the Democrats are ruthless about their own house cleaning.

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07-12-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 01:13 PM)Rockblossom Wrote:  Hmm. I think a lot of people are missing the big picture. I don't think that the "house cleaning" by the Democrats is futile. They don't care what the elected Republicans or their hardcore supporters think about it, because it isn't about the the Republicans. The DNC has been floundering a bit this year, trying to figure out a message that will resonate with voters in 2018 and 2020 and carry them forward. Now the #MeToo movement has given them a message, and they see a route forward with it, especially with female voters.

Possibly the best thing that could happen for them now is for Alabama to send Roy Moore to the Senate, where he will have plenty of opportunities to show off the extent of his "values" - while his Republican colleagues scurry to avoid being close to him or (heaven forbid!) be caught in a photo actually talking to him. The Dems will use him to motivate women to run for office. They will do their best to get pictures of him with any Congressman or Senator running for reelection in 2018. They will tie any Republican Senator who votes on a bill with Roy Moore to his "values". Moore will be shunned by his own party in the Senate, and anyone up for re-election next year. If Moore loses next week, then the message will be that decency and good character can win out if voters want it to. It's a win either way, as long as the Democrats are ruthless about their own house cleaning.

That's an interesting take! And you might be right. Although I'm not confident, personally, because I still feel like there's a very large population of people out there who either A) don't think what Moore did was wrong or B) don't really care because it was in the past, and they want to win today.
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07-12-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
While I agree with most of Franken's political positions, I'm glad he resigned. I do think it's appropriate for the Democrats to distinguish themselves as less hypocritical than "family values" Republicans, even if that's only by a small margin.

I think a good next move would be for the Democrats to disassociate themselves entirely from the Clintons.

In terms of powerful people (men and women) abusing that power, until women and other abused subordinates feel safe to resist and reject the abuse without fear of retaliation, it's going to stick around. That means it'll be with us forever. I'm hoping that at least in the corporate world, things will be better for women. Eventually there's a chance some of that change will trickle down to women working in professions where there aren't HR offices.
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07-12-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
So Democrats have a creeper and they call for him to resign.

Republicans have a much worse creeper and they give him $170K for his election hopes.
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07-12-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 11:58 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's interesting that most of the men who are accused are in a certain age group. Or maybe I have missed reports about younger ones?

Some thirty or fourty years ago, the bars were much lower for what you could get away with without raising a scandal. They all have been brought up in the 50ies when women still had to know their place, in a manner of speaking. You only have to look at the adverts of the time to know the score.

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07-12-2017, 02:31 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 02:20 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So Democrats have a creeper and they call for him to resign.

Republicans have a much worse creeper and they give him $170K for his election hopes.

Al Franken had photographic evidence grabbing a woman's breasts while she slept. He has multiple accusers that say he tried to forcefully kiss them, and multiple woman have said that during photo opportunities he grabs their ass, including one woman who was active duty military at the time. Roy Moore has been accused of dating young women (which wasn't illegal at the time) and ONE 14 year old that alledges assault with ZERO proof.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-12-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 02:31 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:20 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So Democrats have a creeper and they call for him to resign.

Republicans have a much worse creeper and they give him $170K for his election hopes.

Al Franken had photographic evidence grabbing a woman's breasts while she slept. He has multiple accusers that say he tried to forcefully kiss them, and multiple woman have said that during photo opportunities he grabs their ass, including one woman who was active duty military at the time. Roy Moore has been accused of dating young women (which wasn't illegal at the time) and ONE 14 year old that alledges assault with ZERO proof.

IIRC in the image, there didn't appear to be actual contact- it was just suggestive. If we're thinking about the same picture.

Beyond that, the allegations against Franken are bad and he should resign.

However, the allegations again Moore are also disturbing and they are well-supported. Illegal or not, people were obviously bothered and discomforted by the man doing what he was doing. It was no less creepy and far more an assault because he preyed on youth.
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07-12-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 12:11 PM)Impulse Wrote:  He admitted he's wrong and he's doing the right thing now by resigning - granted, probably because of the pressure. I don't feel sorry for him. He's responsible for what he did. The sad thing is it seems that chances are pretty high that he'll be replaced by someone else who will mistreat women as well. Yeah, I'm cynical about all this now. It ticks me off how common this is turning out to be and I'm sure we've only scratched the surface. Dodgy

I think not. There is a Democratic governor in that state, and he'll likely appoint a Democratic woman as interim, until an election. That part is OK. Maybe he can "do penance" and come back later, in some capacity ... he's not that old. It's probably too early in the "Me Too" big picture to think about "differences", but there is a difference in what he did, and what Moore did.

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07-12-2017, 05:24 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 05:27 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Al Franken is resigning
(07-12-2017 02:31 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 02:20 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So Democrats have a creeper and they call for him to resign.

Republicans have a much worse creeper and they give him $170K for his election hopes.

Al Franken had photographic evidence grabbing a woman's breasts while she slept. He has multiple accusers that say he tried to forcefully kiss them, and multiple woman have said that during photo opportunities he grabs their ass, including one woman who was active duty military at the time. Roy Moore has been accused of dating young women (which wasn't illegal at the time) and ONE 14 year old that alledges assault with ZERO proof.

And yet the senior Republican Senator regards the allegations against Moore as credible. The people who knew Moore knew him to prowl malls looking for fresh meat, to the point that he had been banned from some outlets. This is the man that you are here defending. And you are an avowed supporter of a President who has been recorded admitting to sexual assault.

No surprise that you can close your eyes, because like too many Americans, you place ideology above what is simply right and wrong. You'd rather have a sexual predator as president than to consider a Democrat. What if it were your own daughter? Would you sacrifice her innocence on the altar of your political views?

Who you support volumes about you, Crooked Cop -- even if you don't realize that yourself.
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