Alcoholic God.
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30-07-2014, 04:40 PM
Alcoholic God.
No not Bacchus or a pissed Jesus.......none other than Alcoholics Anonymous' Higher Power.
A.A. looks to a higher power to help the alcoholic escape from alcoholism. Note that the power is 'higher'----not highest, which fits well with my way at looking at such from a metaphysical perspective. "Higher" does not require prostrating oneself before dogmatic absolute truths; rather it is quite open only requiring some degree of genuinely decent motivation.

While AA is predominantly concerned with the dangers of alcoholism the 12 step program can be also applied to other aspects of one's lifestyle as well.The fact that it has it's roots with the Oxford Group, an evangelical puritan group, and may be seen to push Christianity, the fact remains that the god involved is of the believers own understanding, not an idealized doctrinaire one. There are secular AA meetings in which the group conscience is seen as spiritual and helpful.

A Higher Power can reflect one's inner most best intentions and may act as a motivating force to achieve such. The fact that any results fail to meet scientific rationales does not seem to matter, providing the results are good. Many things are possible within Eternity, some of which may respond well to the seemingly un-rational. Such too, may serve as a safe wedge against an extremely materialistic outlook.
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04-12-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: Alcoholic God.
Unfortunately the spill over from religion to the 12 step groups is legendary.
The god of your understanding is a lot of times cover is a well meaning attempt at diversifying, divesting one from the shackles of religion, which is usually Christianity, but it still has many components of the one minded ness of religion, that if you're in 'our' group you gotta tow the line and comply.
In some of the AA meetings there wasn't even any attempt to cover this by some with their 'testimony'. JC was mentioned quite easily and readily invoked one way or another, in a positive way.
After about 25 years in Al-Anon I finally had to give up on this destructive aspect, so I left.
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04-12-2014, 11:02 AM
RE: Alcoholic God.
I've known 12-steppers who use their kids or the concept of "family" as their higher power. Coming as it does from a Puritanical/Christian tradition I can understand why a higher power is a facet of the 12-step program but to me it's bunk. It's yet another way of pushing the flawed, lowly, unworthy, human/sinner mindset; that you can't possibly recover from addiction without the intervention of a higher power. Bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with using a higher power as an inspiration if it helps people get the monkey off their back, but when all is said and done YOU are the one who has to refuse the drink or the needle, not your higher power. YOU make that decision from your own internal strength - and you deserve ALL the credit for it!
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04-12-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
Maybe that's a way to kick start the recovery process off, but it gets too easy to be lulled into complacency with whatever outside you is chosen to act as the causing agent.

If there were some guarantee that most people would start decision making from their own internal strength, as you put it, then fine. But that can't be guaranteed in any way shape or form. So, I'm still against it.
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04-12-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
(04-12-2014 11:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I've known 12-steppers who use their kids or the concept of "family" as their higher power. Coming as it does from a Puritanical/Christian tradition I can understand why a higher power is a facet of the 12-step program but to me it's bunk. It's yet another way of pushing the flawed, lowly, unworthy, human/sinner mindset; that you can't possibly recover from addiction without the intervention of a higher power. Bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with using a higher power as an inspiration if it helps people get the monkey off their back, but when all is said and done YOU are the one who has to refuse the drink or the needle, not your higher power. YOU make that decision from your own internal strength - and you deserve ALL the credit for it!

I see the higher power concept of AA to be of some value.
True, we need to rationalize our behaviour, based on experience, along with our intentions.
An idealized mind set (HP) need not involve any religion(though AA was originally based on Christian teachings) may act as a placebo and thus be beneficial...minus any pre conceived religious dogma.
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04-12-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
(04-12-2014 11:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I've known 12-steppers who use their kids or the concept of "family" as their higher power. Coming as it does from a Puritanical/Christian tradition I can understand why a higher power is a facet of the 12-step program but to me it's bunk. It's yet another way of pushing the flawed, lowly, unworthy, human/sinner mindset; that you can't possibly recover from addiction without the intervention of a higher power.

I too think that the concept of original sin is at best a misunderstanding and at worst an evil lie designed to control the masses. However I find an unexpected psychological bonus in relying on a "higher power". It forces the ego to accept the truth that the human experience is more than just the ego. That the mind is not one thing but an association of parts. That "I" am more than just ego. The ego represents the conscious mind, and god represents the subconscious mind.

I realize that when I post here my audience is almost entirely people whose concept of God comes from the church. But the church definition is wrong in this case. In a 12 step sense, the concept of god is as a tool to allow a person to manipulate their own subconscious. It is not a thing outside yourself.

(04-12-2014 11:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with using a higher power as an inspiration if it helps people get the monkey off their back, but when all is said and done YOU are the one who has to refuse the drink or the needle, not your higher power. YOU make that decision from your own internal strength - and you deserve ALL the credit for it!

In a sense this is true. If I needed to dig a ditch, and I dug one, You could say that I would deserved all the credit. Of course I would be grateful to my shovel. I could have dug the ditch without a shovel, but it is much more difficult to dig a ditch with only my hands.

Don't let religious people fool you into believing that god is some mysterious being external to yourself. God is a tool, that you control, and use to work on yourself.
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04-12-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
(04-12-2014 02:23 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I see the higher power concept of AA to be of some value.
True, we need to rationalize our behaviour, based on experience, along with our intentions.
An idealized mind set (HP) need not involve any religion(though AA was originally based on Christian teachings) may act as a placebo and thus be beneficial...minus any pre conceived religious dogma.

Couldn't the concept of "higher power" be one's own responsibility to one's self?

Seems more sincere to me than something outside the self.

If not... then coffee will be my higher power. Considering I'm already addicted... easy-peasy. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-12-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
I've seen a few who use the meetings themselves as their HP. The so-called 'tables'.
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04-12-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
Pointwithinacircle - When recovering from any chemical dependence therapists take as a granted that emotional development stopped at approx. 14 y.o., and in the beginnings there needs to be a reliance outside of self because there's nothing intellectually or emotionally stable to work with. This could also apply to co-dependents as well. But to maintain that type and kind of reliance gets to be a straight jacket that's hard to detect by the patient, and might never be challenged because of the comfort factor it provides.

Throughout history the 'sky daddy' has supposedly always had the upper hand in/with his creations down here on the planet. So how is one to redefine ones relationship to him (?) when for 2 millennia we've been in the subservient position and know no different.

KIM - Long term responsibility to ones self, and added to that responsibility to the community would be the goals of recovery. I would think.

It's always easier to focus on a real object that an inanimate one at the beginning because of wall of defense mechanism that are right out front blocking a lot of possible input.
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04-12-2014, 11:39 PM
RE: Alcoholic God.
(04-12-2014 04:55 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 02:23 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I see the higher power concept of AA to be of some value.
True, we need to rationalize our behaviour, based on experience, along with our intentions.
An idealized mind set (HP) need not involve any religion(though AA was originally based on Christian teachings) may act as a placebo and thus be beneficial...minus any pre conceived religious dogma.

Couldn't the concept of "higher power" be one's own responsibility to one's self?

Seems more sincere to me than something outside the self.

If not... then coffee will be my higher power. Considering I'm already addicted... easy-peasy. Drinking Beverage

Coffee it is then! I'm a fan too.Drinking Beverage
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