All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
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27-07-2014, 03:20 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 03:29 AM by Luminon.)
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Nice talk, I just wouldn't call it good faith, I'd call it acceptance of reality. It's the reality that is left when you logically disprove cultural values and lies (the self-refuting nihilism, arbitrary culture, and so on).
Nihilism is the examination of nothingness and the only place where nothingness really exists, is within human mind. All reality is in existence and can only behave rationally and empirically, but human mind has a capacity to be void and consequently to be depressed of this void. But even in examination of this emptiness of outlook, there is not nothing - there is pain. The pain is the reality if I deny the reality of being.

One of nihilistic questions is "why there is something rather than nothing". It's not 50/50 chance! "Nothing" is just a word, not a thing.
So nihilism does not come from examination of reality. I think nihilism is having one's mind caught in a loop without external inputs or conditions. Programmers do that often enough, but they don't call it philosophy.
Thinking alone is not enough, one has to think about reality - and not just external, but internal as well. Our "subjective" brain and being is just as real, as the "objective" outside. Our inside is even more real, because it is even more complex, the brain is the most complex object in existence. An awful lot of energy has to do with evolving it, maintaining it and using it. And energy is existence, whatever form it has.
So have acceptance of existence! The question of existence is what, not if.
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27-07-2014, 05:43 AM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
I disagree with your title that all paths lead to nihilism.

I think it is quite possible that somebody could lead a very good life,with the "best" upbringing who has an unbreakable resolve of what is "right" that they use to determine and order every thought and situation put in their life.

I think it is only through a lack of answers that people skirt with nihilism. Why else would you question?

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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27-07-2014, 04:51 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Quote:I actually did read all you had to say, and I was only agreeing with you on the parts that stuck out to me. I wasn't trying to debate. You and I share the same opinions on a lot of points. A bit of friendly criticism however: Try condensing your thoughts so it doesn't come off so "long winded" as our friend Bucky pointed out. Shortening and simplifying ideas is, after all, what science does best.

I have really been working hard on making some of my post shorter. Some how a Wall of Text has become like an addiction to me.

I am going to keep working on this.

I think my next Wall of Text I am just going to copy into a word document. That way I don't forget anything or everything I want to cover.

Then I can just draw from my document one or two paragraphs at a time.

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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27-07-2014, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 05:54 PM by thespiritualanarchist.)
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Please Reload For Final Version

Quote:I disagree with your title that all paths lead to nihilism.

I think it is quite possible that somebody could lead a very good life,with the "best" upbringing who has an unbreakable resolve of what is "right" that they use to determine and order every thought and situation put in their life.

I think it is only through a lack of answers that people skirt with nihilism. Why else would you question?

Hmm I agree with you on this but I wasn't addressing Moral Nihilism. I guess that is my fault for making such a long post.

Sorry about that.

Now just to be clear I did mention Moral Nihilism in my post. The reason was there was a thread on here suggesting that Atheists do not know right from wrong because of Nihilism. So I pointed out the irony that Moral Nihilism is actually the highest spiritual path.
Of course my definition of Moral Nihilism is way different than a Christian or Theist...

I think the problem is that Theist keep mistaking Moral Relativism for Moral Nihilism.
They are not the same thing. And worse than that they define Moral Relativism as anything goes by mixing Hedonism with Egoism.

So here is the mess as I see it.

A Theist attempts to define Moral Nihilism

Theist says

You are a Nihilist

Atheist says

What do you mean?

Theist says

Atheists think all morality is relative so nothing is intrinsically moral or immoral.

Atheist says

What ? Don't you realize that you are calling me a Nihilist because you think I am a Moral Relativist? By saying all morality is relative so nothing is intrinsically moral or immoral you are equating two different views.

According to you ...

Moral Relativism=Moral Nihilism

Theist says

Look I know that you are an Atheist so I can prove that you think all morality is relative so nothing is intrinsically moral or immoral

Atheist says

Ok you right that I am an Atheist but you have failed to prove that I am a Nihilist. And you have yet to address the problem that you have added the definition of Relativism to Nihilism to form an impossible view for anyone to be able to hold

Theist says

Not impossible for a deluded Atheist who doesn't have God in their life

Atheist says

Wow. You completely ignored everything I have said. 2 points for being an irrational ahole. Now I am still waiting for the proof you said you had

Theist says

Atheists accept the doctrine that nothing exists except matter because they have a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values.

Because Atheists pursue pleasure as the only intrinsic good they assume that moral agents ought to do what is in their own self-interest.

Atheists reject God so they can rejects any pursuit of devotion to "a great idea, a good cause,including religion and spirituality. This way they can reject morality saying that the Atheist has no spiritual calling but rather "lives themselves out" without regard to "how well or ill humanity may fare thereby."

Because Atheists have a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values. they must hold to the idea that the only limitation on the rights of the individual is his power to obtain what he desires

Atheist says

I don't know what to say. You have now combined so many unrelated Philosophies to form one disgusting one and then try to put this new Philosophy on all Atheists.

Theist says

How so?

Atheist says

Well first you combined two forms of materialism

1. Ethics
a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values.
2.
PHILOSOPHY
the doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications.

Then you combined several forms of Egoism including the political view of Anarchism
by Max Stirner with Hedonism

Then you put this mess together into your own Philosophy and tied it to Moral Nihilism which you defined with two different Moral Systems... Nihilism and Relativism

To top it all off you have tried to lay this mess of a new Philosophy that is obviously inconsistent with itself at my feet and all other Atheists !

No Atheist could actually have this Philosophy because you just invented it

And no one (Atheist or Theist) could believe this Philosophy let alone live by it because half the views you combined contradict their other half!

Theist says

Nihilist !!!

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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27-07-2014, 05:47 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Paragraphs dude. Learn them, know them, use them.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-07-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Sorry I was doing a dialogue and ending up separating every sentence . I am going to fix it now

Ok you can reload the page. I think I fixed it

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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27-07-2014, 06:16 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
(27-07-2014 05:52 PM)thespiritualanarchist Wrote:  Sorry I was doing a dialogue and ending up separating every sentence . I am going to fix it now

Ok you can reload the page. I think I fixed it

Nah, you're good. It works with the dialogue i guess.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-07-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
(26-07-2014 10:16 PM)thespiritualanarchist Wrote:  Bucky Ball

Hmm after reading your profile maybe I have come to the conclusion that having you as an editor isn't such a bad idea. Consider

To bad you hate me
Laugh out load

Too

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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27-07-2014, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 08:47 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Stephen Fry did some excellent short videos on this topic:









“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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28-07-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Quote:thespiritualanarchist Wrote:
Bucky Ball

Hmm after reading your profile maybe I have come to the conclusion that having you as an editor isn't such a bad idea. Consider

To bad you hate me
Laugh out load

Too

Too?

What does that mean?

You are saying it is too bad you hate me?

Or are you saying you think I hate you?

Because I don't hate you

I don't even know you. You are just a stranger that decided to throw rocks at my car for no discernible reason.

For some reason and I don't know why you seemed obsessed with following me thread to thread complaining some weird conspiracy theory about forgetting to add an "s" to the word Atheists.

I can't get mad because I have no idea what the problem is. I did find the way to hit ignore on someone. So if you keep up complaints that sound to me like a mad man I will just use that little button.

If you ever want to have a real conversation let me know. I may seem just as full of myself as anyone else and to some extent I may be. But I actually like having conversations and I really do like discussing Philosophy with people that are actually interested in discussing their own views and questioning me about mine.

If you have been seduced by a Troll bug and just like picking victims to irritate then I am not interested. My mentor is Socrates and he taught that people need a gadfly to sting them so they didn't become complacent sheep. Only I think he used horses in his example. But I know he meant that gadfly

Quote:gad·fly

noun
a fly that bites livestock, especially a horsefly, warble fly.
an annoying person, especially one who provokes others into action by criticism.

But Socrates meant by gadfly ... a person who upsets the status quo by posing upsetting or novel questions.

To me you seem more like the mosquito buzzing in peoples ears making a lot of noise that means nothing then drinking their blood like a vampire and spreading your disease.


But I don't know you so I could be wrong.

But if I am wrong this is one thing I can't prove wrong about you. If this is wrong about you then you are going to have to prove me wrong on this. I know you like proving me wrong. So if you can show a little respect for me as a human being then I will gladly admit that I am wrong. If you know you cannot prove me wrong on this then go bother somebody who cares.

Because I find it impossible to care about someone that only cares about themselves.

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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