All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
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28-07-2014, 04:50 AM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
(26-07-2014 09:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-07-2014 09:41 PM)thespiritualanarchist Wrote:  Naturalism = Nihilism?

[url=http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Naturalism-Nihilism]
There was a thread on here that I reference above about Nihilism. The original post was asking the question if Atheism leads to Nihilism.

I have met many Atheist that seemed very close to Nihilism but I do not find that Theism is immune to Nihilistic Tendencies in thought.

To me it isn't a specific belief system that leads to Nihilism or the lack of any belief system. The problem is not any particular belief system or lack of any such system. The problem lies in thinking itself.

To me the term "Delusional Thinking" is redundant.

Now I know that this is the Thinking Atheist Forum and I am a Philosopher so my job is thinking.

So I will admit right now that I have the same addiction to thinking as anyone else. And like any true addict I will defend my addiction. Not all addictions are 100% bad. Consider someone addicted to exercise. If I had to choose to be addicted to anything thinking would be my addiction of choice.

See I am doing it already.

(In once sense I am a recovering addict)

This is not an attack on thinking simply a suggestion that we should think about thinking. Mmmm this is addictive ! Give me another.

So let me get right to the point. It is my thesis that thinking does lead to Nihilistic Tendencies. This is different then actual Nihilism.

In practice actual Nihilism is self negating and therefore unsustainable.

But before I continue I want to address the OP I got the idea from to start this thread.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think this post was originally only addressing Moral Nihilism. Although I am putting forth the proposition that thinking leads to Nihilistic Tendencies I am not suggesting that this has anything to do with morality or morals.

Moral Nihilism is actually one of the highest spiritual states you can achieve although I wouldn't advise you to call it Moral Nihilism.

When a Theist accuses an Atheist of Moral Nihilism they are insinuating that an Atheist has no moral compass.

If by a moral compass they mean a set of instructions from a holy book or the voices of gods in their heads then they are right. But if they are suggesting that Atheists have some strange lack of spiritual empathy or compassion like that of a sociopath then they are making a really absurd claim. If you are going to make that kind of extreme claim about a group you better be able to back it up.



Sorry Atheism isn't a personality disorder and it isn't going to go away because you say it is one.

The irony is that it is usually a belief that becomes part of some kind of compulsion which leads or at least contributes to most mental illnesses. I have never heard of a case where somebody giving up a belief led to this problem. (Unless this lead to other types of beliefs)

So this whole fear of someone becoming a danger to themselves or society based on a lack of a belief is completely unfounded.

Now back to Nihilism and the purpose of this post.

The Nihilism I am talking about is of the type where every possible way of seeing meaning on any level is exhausted and the only views of Reality accepted are those that support this way of viewing things.

Again I do not think that someone could sustain this way of thinking or perceiving for long. The problem is that the thought process can continuously seduce the ego to see how close it can take you to the edge. It is true that in my theory it can never get you to jump. But looking over the edge can give a lot of people extreme forms of anxiety.

There are some people with what are called suicidal tendencies who never would actually kill themselves.

In the same way I think we all have Nihilistic Tendencies caused by an addiction to thinking. So what is the alternative?

To a lot of people the alternative to Nihilistic Tendencies is adopting a system of beliefs and adding these beliefs to their other defense mechanisms. It is my view that if this is your solution then the cure may be worse than the disease.

Just to be clear thinking by itself is not the disease that leads to Nihilism. It is the addiction to thinking that leads to Nihilistic Tendencies. Since beliefs are the most addictive type of thinking known to man they can not be the cure to the problem I am suggesting we have here.

When you create an imbalance between your thoughts and your emotive states the addiction just gets worse. The Cognitive Dissonance between your beliefs and Reality will become so great that an extreme defense mechanism will kick in called faith.

The faith I am talking about is what Sartre termed Bad Faith.


I include the book I first read that quote in Being and Nothingness because I think that it is this book which influenced me most in Philosophy.

So what could be a form of good faith? I am not sure there is such a thing. But the closest I have come is bridging the gap between I think therefore I am and simply "I am".

That is when I meditate I am often confronted with nothingness but once I let go of my addiction to thinking my perception changed from nothingness to emptiness.

The distinction is subtle bet it led my to my view that all paths lead to Nihilism because thinking leads to Nihilistic Tendencies. So the level of Nihilism you achieve is equal to your addiction to thinking.

There is one view of addiction that most addicts are in denial and often say I can stop any time I like.

So although it is obvious that I like thinking mmm love thinking I am well aware that in order to overcome addiction that I must be able to stop when I want to.

The first thing I did was get rid of my most addictive thinking called beliefs. Then I gave up all my need for faith in the bad sense. As a result my Nihilistic Tendencies became so weak as to be almost nonexistent. (Yes I am aware of the irony of my wording. )

This reminds me of the joke If you can keep your head whilst all around people are losing theirs, then you obviously don't understand the problem.

The problem here is not thoughts but attachment to thoughts. It is this attachment that leads to an addiction. And it is this addiction that leads to Nihilistic Tendencies.

Just remember if you do decide to go all the way to the edge of the cliff it would be better for you to jump into the abyss of nothingness then give into the need to accept a belief system. As I said before Actual Nihilism is impossible. And more importantly if you want any chance of not going insane please remember why this is so. It is because Nihilism is self refuting.

Once you realize this you will develop what I would call good faith.

That is not faith that is reasoning without evidence ...but the kind of faith that allows you to see the evidence for what I am saying no matter where your addictive thoughts may attempt to lead you.

Another "typo" ?
Sure.
It appears what you are addicted to is long-winded speeches.

Isn't addiction to long-winded speeches a key feature of philosobullshitters?

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28-07-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
(27-07-2014 05:44 PM)thespiritualanarchist Wrote:  Hmm I agree with you on this but I wasn't addressing Moral Nihilism. I guess that is my fault for making such a long post.

Personally I think that all nihilism is moral as morality is part of our thought process (fight/flight) and cannot be bypassed when we apply nihilism to things outside/not part of ourselves.

You could argue with a theist about justifications behind actions, how in the past Christianity has done "bad" for "good" and that their indifference to the past/now is just another form of nihilism as it evades personal responsibility and is matched to fit bias.

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I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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28-07-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
(28-07-2014 01:00 AM)thespiritualanarchist Wrote:  
Quote:thespiritualanarchist Wrote:
Bucky Ball

Hmm after reading your profile maybe I have come to the conclusion that having you as an editor isn't such a bad idea. Consider

To bad you hate me
Laugh out load

Too

Too?

What does that mean?

You are saying it is too bad you hate me?

Or are you saying you think I hate you?

None of the above -- she was just correcting your spelling/grammar. "To bad you hate me" is bad grammar -- it makes no sense. What you meant to say/write was "Too bad you hate me". To and too are completely different words, with different meanings, that happen to sound the same.

A number of people on this forum (including me sometimes) are "Grammar Nazis" who will point out grammar and spelling mistakes. You seem to make a lot of these mistakes, so the Grammar Nazis are having a field day. That's all. No hate involved.

By the way, if you ever catch Vosur making a grammar or spelling mistake, be sure to point it out -- it will be a real feather in your cap. Big Grin
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28-07-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Quote:Isn't addiction to long-winded speeches a key feature of philosobullshitters?


I already admitted that I am long winded and I am addicted to making Wall of Text. It doesn't in anyway prove that I am a bullshitter.

If you think I am a bullshitter then stop being a coward and actually point out what you think is bs.

Point out where I am wrong on something or shut up.

A real Bullshitter is someone that can not back up what they say. So if you do not want people on here to suspect that you are the real bullshitter you had better be able to back up what you say.

You are already using Ad hominem which is a fallacy and a weak debaters tactic. So I have to say so far I am not impressed.

Quote:ad hominem
You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.

Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

Quote:A logical fallacy is a flaw in reasoning. Logical fallacies are like tricks or illusions of thought, and they're often very sneakily used by politicians and the media to fool people. Don't be fooled!

This website has been designed to help you identify and call out dodgy logic wherever it may raise its ugly, incoherent head.

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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28-07-2014, 11:02 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Quote:None of the above -- she was just correcting your spelling/grammar. "To bad you hate me" is bad grammar -- it makes no sense. What you meant to say/write was "Too bad you hate me". To and too are completely different words, with different meanings, that happen to sound the same.

A number of people on this forum (including me sometimes) are "Grammar Nazis" who will point out grammar and spelling mistakes. You seem to make a lot of these mistakes, so the Grammar Nazis are having a field day. That's all. No hate involved.

By the way, if you ever catch Vosur making a grammar or spelling mistake, be sure to point it out -- it will be a real feather in your cap

Thank you. I thought he was a Troll. A Grammar Nazi I can handle. Although I love them and hate them. I love being corrected because as a writer I need all the training I can get! Although typos and grammar are not the same. I do see how a typo can ruin grammar now. I guess the only thing I dislike is the implication that typos mean you couldn't possibly be a smart person or have any real points. Sort of like the people on here that imply that a wall of text means you are just bullshitting people and couldn't possibly be a real intellectual with any valid points ...let alone have a valid point of view.

Again it still helps me because it is training me to be more concise in my writing but I doubt this is the actual intention of my bullies.

Laugh out load

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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28-07-2014, 11:05 PM
RE: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
Quote:You could argue with a theist about justifications behind actions, how in the past Christianity has done "bad" for "good" and that their indifference to the past/now is just another form of nihilism as it evades personal responsibility and is matched to fit bias.

Wow that is a good point. Never thought of it that way before.

Thumbsup

The combination of hypocrisy and closed mindedness along with substituting manipulation for reasoning can bring out hostility in me. Facepalm
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29-07-2014, 08:15 AM
Re: All Paths Lead To Nihilism?
I would not recommend anyone to use Satre terminology for his concepts because I don't think he entirely conceptualized them. Maybe it's just an English translation issue. I think there really is no being in any form of good faith. If there is, it's a momentary state much like Nirvana.

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