All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
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25-09-2015, 12:29 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 07:35 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Your problem is you think you are entitled to make moral judgements , but adhere to a world view where objective moral values cannot exist.

No problem -- I make subjective moral judgements anyway.

And what is your alleged "divine law," but the subjective opinion of your supposed god? You're in exactly the same predicament as the non-believers.

If objective morality actually existed, it would not require deities; it would be something intrinsic to reality, and it would be consistent. You wouldn't be able to pull Divine Command Theory crap and redefine Yahweh's murderous actions in the Bible as good.
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25-09-2015, 02:19 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 06:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...ht=dualism

Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands

http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivi...et_NDE.htm

division of Cardiology, Hospital Rijnstate, Arnhem, Netherlands (P van Lommel MD); Tilburg, Netherlands (R van Wees PhD); Nijmegen, Netherlands (V Meyers PhD); and Capelle a/d Ijssel, Netherlands (I Elfferich PhD)

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."

Explain why neuro-degenerative diseases, brain lesions and anesthesia have the effect that they do.
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25-09-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 06:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:58 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  We won't know shit because part of the definition of death is that our brains cease to function and therefore we lose the ability to 'know'.

Not only is there no scientific evidence that we can perform any kind of intellectual ability without a brain, which would be a bit like driving without a vehicle, but all evidence points to mental faculties degrading or stopping as the brain is slowly destroyed or ceases to function.

For someone who has been trying to subvert science, your post demonstrates that you do not actually care about evidence.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...ht=dualism

Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands

http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivi...et_NDE.htm

division of Cardiology, Hospital Rijnstate, Arnhem, Netherlands (P van Lommel MD); Tilburg, Netherlands (R van Wees PhD); Nijmegen, Netherlands (V Meyers PhD); and Capelle a/d Ijssel, Netherlands (I Elfferich PhD)

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."

Meet Ahmed bin Saleem Ali, he went to heaven during an NDE and met Alla:




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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25-09-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 07:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 11:26 AM)Godexists Wrote:  why are you wasting your time name calling me ? What do you expect to reach doing this ? or are you not grown up yet ?

You clearly did not understand what I said. The insult was just an observation.

so as an observation, its not a insult anymore ? again: what is your goal here ?
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25-09-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 07:45 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:35 PM)‘Godexists Wrote:  ...these values cannot exist without God...

All human values are subjective constructs.

I challenge you to name any “objective” value and I or someone from our Forum will describe a situation where it falls apart and doesn’t hold.

once a value or moral code is not objective , but subjective, it equals of no value or moral code at all. You can't have it both ways. Either torturing , raping and killing innocent babies for fun is wrong on all circumstances, and if it depends on everyones subjective opinion, then it equals to " everything is permitted ", and no real moral values exist.
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25-09-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
Pretty complex.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-09-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
FacepalmRolleyes ETA: Directed at GE, not you Banjo.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 08:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I can make moral judgements because I have a sense of empathy

why do you have empathy, rather than none ?

Quote:I wouldn't torture anyone forever for not believing what I tell them because I provide no evidence. That makes me demonstrably morally superior to the god of the bible.

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Quote:Positing a god that tortures for lack of belief is an inferior moral construct to that which humans can derive from simple empathy.

how do you know ?
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25-09-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(25-09-2015 09:36 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:45 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  All human values are subjective constructs.

I challenge you to name any “objective” value and I or someone from our Forum will describe a situation where it falls apart and doesn’t hold.

once a value or moral code is not objective , but subjective, it equals of no value or moral code at all. You can't have it both ways. Either torturing , raping and killing innocent babies for fun is wrong on all circumstances, and if it depends on everyones subjective opinion, then it equals to " everything is permitted ", and no real moral values exist.

The above reply is not, actually an answer but an equivocation.

Please answer the question and demonstrate any/an "Objective" value. We'll wait.. though given your previous posting history.. we may not be patient.
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25-09-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(24-09-2015 09:07 PM)morondog Wrote:  GE, if your stupid deity did exist it would be completely ridiculous to think of worshiping such a piece of shit. You can pile on fear of hell all you want, that is no God worthy of anything other than a declaration of war.

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