All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
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14-09-2015, 06:23 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2015 06:31 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 06:09 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 01:45 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

for example, this :

http://www.icr.org/article/mutation-fixa...evolution/


Quote:Most arguments against the possibility of mutation as a mechanism for evolution revolve around two premises: that mutations are almost always harmful,

(My bold) ... which suggests that some mutations are not harmful. Unless you are going to say that all mutations are harmful then this is irrelevant.

Besides this doesn't explain why artificial evolution works in practice. Artificial evolution relies on mutation and is used for optimising things like aeroplane wings. I hope you're not going to go flying any time soon.

Quote:and that the idea of their improving rather than harming organisms is contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that matter and energy naturally tend toward greater randomness rather than greater order and complexity.

Naturally tend towards. Meaning that they don't always tend towards greater randomness. What actually happens is that entropy is increased globally without a doubt, but order and complexity can increase locally. This can be demonstrated with computer models. I have even done this myself.

This is basic Non-equilibrium thermodynamics.
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14-09-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 06:09 AM)Godexists Wrote:  and, from my last article :

This is one more great example of a amazingly complex molecular machine, that will operate and exercise its precise orchestrated function properly ONLY with ALL components fully developed and formed and able to interact in a highly complex, ordered , precise manner. Both, the software, and the hardware, must be in place fully developed, or the mechanism will not work. No intermediate stage will do the job. And neither would snRNPs (U1, U2, U4, U5, and U6) have any function if not fully developed. And even if they were there, without the branch-point-binding protein (BBP) in place, nothing done, either, since the correct splice site could not be recognized. Had the introns and exons not have to emerge simultaneously with the Spliceosome ? No wonder, does the paper : " Origin and evolution of spliceosomal introns " admit: Evolution of exon-intron structure of eukaryotic genes has been a matter of long-standing, intensive debate. 1 and it concludes that : The elucidation of the general scenario of evolution of eukaryote gene architecture by no account implies that the main problems in the study of intron evolution and function have been solved. Quite the contrary, fundamental questions remains wide open. If the first evolutionary step would have been the arise of self-splicing Group II introns, then the question would follow : Why would evolution not have stopped there, since that method works just fine ?


There is no credible road map, how introns and exons, and the splice function could have emerged gradually. What good would the spliceosome be good for, if the essential sequence elements to recognise where to slice would not be in place ? What would happen, if the pre mRNA with exons and introns were in place, but no spliceosome ready in place to do the post transcriptional modification, and neither the splicing code, which directs the way where to splice ? In the article : ‘JUNK’ DNA HIDES ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS, the author, Wang, observes that splicing "is a tightly regulated process, and a great number of diseases are caused by the 'misregulation' of splicing in which the gene was not cut and pasted correctly." Missplicing in the cell can have dire consequences as the desired product is not produced, and often the wrong products can be toxic for the cell. For this reason, it has been proposed that ATPases are important for ‘proofreading’ mechanisms that promote fidelity in splice site selection.

Word salad that doesn't answer my question.

What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?
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14-09-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 06:26 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

you should rather ask, if information can increase in the genome.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...-selection
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14-09-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 08:50 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 06:26 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

you should rather ask, if information can increase in the genome.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...-selection

Post your spam somewhere else.

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14-09-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 08:50 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 06:26 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

you should rather ask, if information can increase in the genome.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...-selection

Of course it can. Through mutation and duplication.

Crossover leads to a decrease of information over time even without a selection pressure because information is lost through convergence. Mutation increases information. This is why you need both the mutation and crossover operators in a genetic algorithm. If you don't have mutation then you end up with premature convergence.
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14-09-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
Still waiting for the answer to the following question:

What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?
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14-09-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 08:50 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 06:26 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

you should rather ask, if information can increase in the genome.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/...-selection

Can you define an increase of information in the genome? For example would you consider adaptations that change a fish's fin into a human hand or bat's wing an increase in information?

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14-09-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 12:40 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Can you define an increase of information in the genome? For example would you consider adaptations that change a fish's fin into a human hand or bat's wing an increase in information?

from a bacteria to man, that would require definitively a hudge amount of increased information.
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14-09-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 09:06 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Still waiting for the answer to the following question:

What mechanism is in place to stop small changes from accumulating over many generations?

i think you are asking the wrong question.

It has never been observed that a bacteria evolved into something else than a bacteria. That is EMPIRICAL evidence that it simply does NOT happen.
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14-09-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: All cellular functions are  irreducibly complex
(14-09-2015 05:53 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 12:40 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Can you define an increase of information in the genome? For example would you consider adaptations that change a fish's fin into a human hand or bat's wing an increase in information?

from a bacteria to man, that would require definitively a hudge amount of increased information.

The question was from fin to hand or wing. Is that an increase of information or not?

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