All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
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27-04-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 11:31 AM)Charis Wrote:  I agree. I like how he presents his views, and honestly? Whether I believe it or not, I think the place would be enriched by his dialog. If for not other reason than to hear his perspective, compare it to others' perspectives within Christianity, etc., etc. He's a very logical guy, a very kind guy., and even if I don't agree with his beliefs, I love watching his brilliant mind at work. His is a rather impressive intellect.

Please define 'rather'.

Dodgy

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27-04-2014, 10:46 PM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 12:20 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  ...
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28-04-2014, 12:27 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 10:02 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-04-2014 11:31 AM)Charis Wrote:  I agree. I like how he presents his views, and honestly? Whether I believe it or not, I think the place would be enriched by his dialog. If for not other reason than to hear his perspective, compare it to others' perspectives within Christianity, etc., etc. He's a very logical guy, a very kind guy., and even if I don't agree with his beliefs, I love watching his brilliant mind at work. His is a rather impressive intellect.

Please define 'rather'.

Dodgy
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28-04-2014, 05:55 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  This is part of the reason I am here. I am endlessly curious about what others think and believe and why.
Really???

(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  In most religious conversations I get into with people, the religious person thinks I'm attacking their beliefs. I actually am never. I'm only trying to get at how and why by asking the "if" and "but"questions. They are usually defensive and don't answer honestly because they are difficult questions, and usually give answers that are insulting to our intelligence because they think we are fooled, by their non answer, into believing they actually thought about the questions and answered, when they clearly have not.
When do you tire of the run around and move on?

(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  In the case of Kingschosen, and his OP, he just openly stated it.
What - that he knows that atheists believe that he is delusional, and that he wants to continue arguing in the manner of believing that the god is speaking through him to argue about its existence instead of using him to solve more pressing problems in humanity?

(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  The extremely frustrating thing for me with most theist, is when they pretend like they are being honest and direct, thought it's blatantly obvious that they are not. Kingschosen was straight up and honest, and I appreciate that. I don't want him to censor himself.
Why are you pretending that you are interested - you know you are not going to consider any of his arguments about the existence of god to be valid???

(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I honestly would prefer him to have written this post, than to not have, and he should feel free to continue to. Proselytizing is not conversation, and I am against any Theist who comes here for that purpose. That is not what KC was doing here, nor has he ever done. I'm fine with him, and would honestly encourage him to continue writing honestly.
Theists are only interested in arguing the existence of god, and that is the only reason theists are engaging you in conversation. There are other pressing problems for atheists to attend to instead of wasting time and energy arguing about the existence of gods. You know their arguments are flawed, and chances are atheists are compromising their sense of reason by engaging in the prolonged and convoluted debates.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 06:06 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 07:29 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(27-04-2014 07:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  Trainwreck isn't going to win any Miss Congeniality contests, not would I want him as president, but stupid he is not.

I don't know if he is stupid or not. But base solely on the two or three things I saw him write here, he made absolutely no sense. Based on the two or three things I saw him write here, he was in at least, part, one hundred percent wrong about what he said, and in another, part, was unintelligible as to what he was saying, if he was indeed saying anything at all.

Based solely on those two or three things I saw him write here, of which are the only things I am referencing of his, he seems to me to be an idiot.
But the theist who thinks he is writing the word of god is an honest man, and deserves your attention, because you are confident that you will win the argument - right?

If not, explain when a theist has won an argument with you.

(27-04-2014 07:29 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  To be a little fair, more than half the time I'm writing in a hurry. I don't have time to look back at what I wrote, because I got to move on with life. I come back later and think, "Shit, that sounds incomprehensible, and nonsensical". In those cases I know what I meant, and I know it was a good thought. But what is left on the thread is not my thought or my intent. I don't always have time to put into this forum to really say what I wish. And I always take that into consideration with any post I read, instead of simply hammering on it. I would be an unthinking hypocrite if I did not. But I don't get that sense that that is what was happening with him here.
I noticed the mispellings and miswords - you are going to need to try harder if you want to graduate beyond arguing with theists about the existence of god.

(27-04-2014 07:29 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  It would be nice if we could all BBQ in a backyard, with a few beers, or whatever your poison may be, and actually have it on. But the nature of a forum diminish your words a bit.

The only reason I may give what he may say in the future a second thought, is that there are some who say he's okay...but at the same time, there are many who say he is not...which is my suspicion based on the two or three things he has already written here. I have little "faith" (based on evidence) that he has much more to offer than this.
These forums should be the ideal situation for sorting out reason, but atheists, like you, are focused on theism, and not the problems in atheism.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 06:13 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 06:24 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(27-04-2014 12:06 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  This is part of the reason I am here. I am endlessly curious about what others think and believe and why.
I really like how you pulled this argument apart to understand what I meant - your patience is beyond reproach.
(26-04-2014 06:39 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(26-04-2014 04:56 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  ...the atheists are exercising contradictory doctrines/premises, as well; otherwise they would be working on developing a scientific political charter, instead of spending so much time and energy arguing with you about the existence of your imaginary being that is only the personification of allegorical concepts.
This right here makes no kind of fucking sense.
First of all, atheist, or atheism has no doctrines or premises to be contradictory, except for lack of belief in a "god" or "gods". The only doctrinaire or premise of atheism that could contradiction that is having a belief in a "god" or "gods". But belief in "god/s" is not a premise Mathis, so no contradiction there.
"...otherwise they would be working on developing a scientific political charter,..."
Ummm..."scientific political charter"...what the fuck are you talking about?
"...instead of spending so much time and energy arguing with you about the existence of your imaginary being that is only the personification of allegorical concepts."
Couldn't theist spend more time on other things than arguing others about the existence of their imaginary sky daddy? What is your point?
You think I haven't encountered a lambasting before??? You think this was the first time I presented such an argument?

I noticed you left this part out - why?
(26-04-2014 04:56 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 08:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  However, there are a lot of times that I'll read something and without thought or consideration I'll hit the "reply" button and start typing - having no idea what I'm saying. Stuff just "comes out". Now, many of you would chalk this up as me being a good BSer and being good at being able to make things up on the fly and make it "sound" right.
What you are experienceing is inference - the connection of ideas. And it is enhanced in the writing exercise, because you make a somewhat concrete idea and then you pause and think about it, and have the opportunity to expand on it, or correct it.
(22-04-2014 08:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But, I'm more inclined to believe that God is speaking through me telling me what to type. . . As crazy and messed up as my theology is to some of you, it isn't contradictory.
It would be nice if God were to speak through you and you were to write the political charters for countries like Egypt, and Ukraine, and a whole bunch of other countries, including the USA; but no, your God is only concerned with arguing about the existence of itself.
You got focused on the anti-atheist shit, didn't you??? Got your attention - you are going to defend what you know is true and you are not going to accept the possibility that the leaders of atheism in the past had to make some compromises in order to appease the dominate Christian society. And just like the bullshit the Christians believe that has been passed on from generation to generation, there is some bullshit that the atheists believe, because nobody has taken the time to sort all the fucking bullshit out.

What is your definition of religion?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 06:52 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(28-04-2014 06:06 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  These forums should be the ideal situation for sorting out reason, but atheists, like you, are focused on theism, and not the problems in atheism.

What problems in what atheism? Atheists don't believe in gods, beyond that they tend to have little in common. It's not like atheism is a religion or a political party, there is no party line and no goal. We just don't believe in gods.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-04-2014, 07:22 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 07:42 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
As atheists well know, religion was the all-encompassing social organization, including political authority.

What people did/do not understand, like a lot of things, like medicine, gravity, and global geography; one of the things was that they did not understand that atheism is a political doctrine, and the problem of not correctly defining it as such has been passed on to our generation, because nobody has taken the time to sort it all out. It has to do with understanding ontology - the study of existence.

Theism is an ontological ordering of reality beginning with the assumption that there is a god that ordered the cosmos. And we recognize that they used faulty information, but it was necessary because most people are not all that bright and need to be told what to do and how to do it and so forth.

Humanism is the ontological ordering of reality that assumes that human beings define reality and all that exists. And we deploy science/metaphysics to do that.

It does not make sense to assume an ontological ordering of reality based on the opposition of another ontological ordering - theism-atheism. And that is what you are doing when you describe atheism as the lack of belief in god - the antithesis of theism.

You want to make a difference in this world you better get this straight before the Christians define it correctly for you.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(28-04-2014 07:22 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  As atheists well know, religion was the all-encompassing social organization, including political authority.

What people did/do not understand, like a lot of things, like medicine, gravity, and global geography; one of the things was that they did not understand that atheism is a political doctrine, and the problem of not correctly defining it as such has been passed on to our generation, because nobody has taken the time to sort it all out. It has to do with understanding ontology - the study of existence.

Theism is an ontological ordering of reality beginning with the assumption that there is a god that ordered the cosmos. And we recognize that they used faulty information, but it was necessary because most people are not all that bright and need to be told what to do and how to do it and so forth.

Humanism is the ontological ordering of reality that assumes that human beings define reality and all that exists. And we deploy science/metaphysics to do that.

It does not make sense to assume an ontological ordering of reality based on the opposition of another ontological ordering - atheism. And that is what you are doing when you describe atheism as the lack of belief in god - the antithesis of theism.

That is exactly what I am saying.
Atheism in itself is not anything, it only becomes something as long as there is theism.

Since theism has a chance in hell of ever disappearing completely, (people like their woo), atheism will continue to exist as a definition of people who are not theists.

It is as much an ontological factor as technology.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-04-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: All of you think I'm crazy already... lol so I'll fuel the fire.
(28-04-2014 07:41 AM)Dom Wrote:  That is exactly what I am saying.
Atheism in itself is not anything, it only becomes something as long as there is theism.
That is why it is why it is a political doctrine, because its purpose is to defeat theism in reasoned debate which is to be conducted in legislative assemblies.

(28-04-2014 07:41 AM)Dom Wrote:  Since theism has a chance in hell of ever disappearing completely, (people like their woo), atheism will continue to exist as a definition of people who are not theists.
Then why bother arguing with theist??? Why do atheist organizations get excited when the statistics conclude that people are less religious?

(28-04-2014 07:41 AM)Dom Wrote:  It is as much an ontological factor as technology.
Technology is the epistemological description of the humanist ontology deliberated by science. You can find further information at the Secular Library.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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