All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
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01-03-2013, 04:09 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2013 04:23 AM by Julius.)
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
[Image: prayer-prayer-alligator-pilot-dead-demot...459676.jpg]
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01-03-2013, 04:12 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 04:07 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  How about no? It's clear from your other thread that you have no interest in having a conversation, only in dining on delicious herring. I find the red ones taste best, don't you? And afterwards, some felatious fallacious arguments.

Ad hominem attack on your part. Attack the man instead of his argument. Is that all you got?
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01-03-2013, 04:21 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 04:08 AM)Aspchizo Wrote:  You are incredibly dense. Take your head out of your ass and reread Evolutionkills first reply.

I'm assuming by worldview you mean our position on the question of the existence of a god. A scrap of evidence in favour might help. Not weakly constructed arguments from a bias half-wit.

I hope your not relying on a thousand year old book constructed by ignorant primitives for your world view, oh wait...
Until Evolutionkills can show that God can be controlled in a scientific study the points he tries to make are impotent.
I forgive you for calling me a bias half-wit.
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01-03-2013, 04:28 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
As usual, this new troll doesn't get the Scientific Method. One does not have to "control the gods". One has to "control FOR" the gods. I wonder what *Hey Hey I'm OK* would think about testing prayers to Alah or Zeus, or Yahweh's father, El Elyon, or Yahweh's wife, (Ashura) ? He actually thinks that ALL the medical centers, and ALL the researchers who have done the studies have not thought about this question. Hey Hey is VERY special. Just you all remember that. (VERY VERY special).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-03-2013, 04:29 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
Does rubbing rocks together help heal people by activating the power of the rock god ? - No
Does thinking about fluffy clouds and unicorns help heal people by channeling happy thoughts ? - No
Same goes for people who concentrate really hard and make wishful hopes to any god who was ever invented by man.

Why is that ?

It's because as far as we can tell, none of the gods ever created by man has the slightest evidence to back up the claim of their existence.
Same goes for any mythical invention like fairies, unicorns, etc.

You are presupposing the existence of god and presupposing that this deity has powers, knowledge, mind and other attributes you have no way of knowing.
You may as well try to describe my attributes. Do I have all my limbs ? Can I run fast ? Am I good looking ? Do I have any scars from car wrecks ? Do I have a PhD in Physics ? etc etc

You can't presuppose that something derived from your imagination exists.
That's just not good science.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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01-03-2013, 04:36 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 04:29 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Does rubbing rocks together help heal people by activating the power of the rock god ? - No
Does thinking about fluffy clouds and unicorns help heal people by channeling happy thoughts ? - No
Same goes for people who concentrate really hard and make wishful hopes to any god who was ever invented by man.

Why is that ?

It's because as far as we can tell, none of the gods ever created by man has the slightest evidence to back up the claim of their existence.
Same goes for any mythical invention like fairies, unicorns, etc.

You are presupposing the existence of god and presupposing that this deity has powers, knowledge, mind and other attributes you have no way of knowing.
You may as well try to describe my attributes. Do I have all my limbs ? Can I run fast ? Am I good looking ? Do I have any scars from car wrecks ? Do I have a PhD in Physics ? etc etc

You can't presuppose that something derived from your imagination exists.
That's just not good science.
The fact that studies of the power of prayer are fatally flawed in no way suggests the existence of God. I am not making that argument. You are suggesting I am making that argument so that it is easy for you to dismiss it. This is called making a straw man's argument. It is a argumentive fallacy.

The fact that studies of the power of prayer are fatally flawed only suggest that you shouldn't use them as evidence of the non existence of God. You shouldn't use them for evidence of anything because they don't show anything. That is the point I making in this thread.
Since I have joined this forum, I have yet to make an actual argument that God exist so please stop claiming that I have, until I actually have.
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01-03-2013, 04:49 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2013 04:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
Nope. The argument here is that ONLY prayer done during "studies" could or would be subject to *Hey Hey I'm OK*'s reasoning. In fact, many of them were retrospective, so the decision to use the prayer for a study in many cases was not done until after the case was discharged, and it was double blinded, AND if HHIOK is going to argue "well the gods are omniscient, so she knew", then it refutes free will. So pays yer money, and makes yer choice.

BTW HHIOK, you do know the plural form of "atheist" is "athesists" ? Right ? You do know that prayer in one study was PROVEN to have a detrimental affect, right ? So is yer god even more of a jerk, and purposely makes people worse because the good beliebers pray to her ? You are full of self-delusional crap. I KNOW you are related to Egsy, our Chief Troll Emeritus. Did he send you ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-03-2013, 04:59 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2013 05:03 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 04:49 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. The argument here is that ONLY prayer done during "studies" could or would be subject to *Hey Hey I'm OK*'s reasoning. In fact, many of them were retrospective, so the decision to use the prayer for a study in many cases was not done until after the case was discharged, and it was double blinded, AND if HHIOK is going to argue "well the gods are onmiscient, so she knew", then it refutes free will. So pays yer money, and makes your choice.

BTW HHIOK, you do know the plural form of "atheist" is "athesists" ? Right ? You do know that prayer in one study was PROVEN to have a detrimental affect, right ? So is yer god even more of a jerk, and purposely makes people worse because the good beliebers pray to her ? You are full of self-delusional crap. I KNOW you are related to Egsy, our Chief Troll Emeritus. Did he send you ?

I don't know anyone on this forum...past or current members. You are treating your suspicions as fact. This is a serious thinking error.

I agree that free will conflicts with omnipotence and omniscience but I fail to see how that is true in this case. The fact that God knows a person's "prayer" is going to end up being an element in a scientific study in no way restricts that persons ability to "pray".

I forgive you for claiming I am full of self-delusional crap.
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01-03-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
I'm going to take one more stab at this. Power of prayers studies aren't trying to prove there is no god.

Lets assume that there is a god, in much the same way that we can assume that I am in front of my computer.
Praying is seen as act of attempting to communicate with god.
Tapping two rocks together in morse code could be a way of attempting to communicate with god.

Now then, which method of communication would work best in trying to communicate with me ?
1. Sending me a message via this forum
2. Tapping on two rocks in morse code outside in the woods.

If one were inclined to believe in a god, you could say, if you wanted to, that prayer isn't an effective communication tool and the studies back up that idea. There is no "power" in prayer.

Think of it as no batteries in the remote that is attempting to change the channel.
If god's plan is perfectly set in motion, then prayer is attempting to change that plan, just like a remote with no batteries is attempting to change the channel.

Does this make any kind of sense to you ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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01-03-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
Is his IP in the same block as Ego's? Might be a relative... Or Ego on a relative's computer. I Doubt it though, he hasn't tried to promote his brand of religion yet... Worth checking though.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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